Dr. Dylan Petkus reviews Heather’s improvements after a 15-year journey of trying “everything” to now sleeping through the night!
00:00
Dylan Petkus, MD
We’re going to talk about really where Heather was, what she tried out, and how things went from there to the point where she is now doing much better, sleeping consistently able to eat more foods with histamine, which I know everybody’s always thinking about. Oh, I love histamine foods, but when you’re someone who has histamine intolerance, it’s a little bit of a different story. And so that’s what we’re going to cover today. Heather, why don’t you introduce yourself and just tell us where you were sort of your journey with your fatigue and health overall.
00:40
Heather
Sure. Thanks, doctor. I’m Heather and I’m in California. And so I have been basically trying to get my health situated and squared away for probably since I was in my early twenties. I didn’t necessarily have any major health issues, but I have always had digestive issues from early on in college. And so I think that’s always undermined and exacerbated my vitality. And so I was always on a quest and I used different diets that were crazy, like macrobiotics. Don’t even get me started. It was so ridiculous. But I was hardcore. I was committed to getting over that. I think it just basically ruined my gut, so I thought it was doing the opposite. For five years, I did that. So I was always on a quest to figure out what is the right thing for me to help me feel better.
01:26
Heather
And I didn’t necessarily have fatigue issues then, but I’ve always had these digestive issues. And so, fast forward to about 2008 or so. I had just a cluster of super stressful things going on. Basically, I was getting my license as a psychotherapist, new relationship, and I was trying to deal with a job I didn’t like and just a whole host of things. And then what happened was I started to have some disturbances in my sleep. They were externally affected externally, but it really brought on or precipitated a major crash. And to be honest, at that time, I didn’t know what the heck was going on. I thought I was depressed. I would go to doctors and it was embarrassing. I would be crying in their offices trying to figure it out.
02:11
Heather
And I thought there must be something wrong with me, or maybe I’m just depressed. So I just felt totally lost. And then whoever I went to, I probably totally overwhelmed them because it was like, fix me, I’m dying, is what I felt like. Right.
02:24
Dylan Petkus, MD
What was that reaction from the doctors? Like, when you just be like, hey. And they’d be like, whoa.
02:28
Heather
I think that they were like, yeah, where do I even start with this person? And I just need to help her feel better right now and try to reassure her. But they would just give me band-aids, for example. And I know that they mean well. I’m totally not disrespecting any healthcare provider. I mean, I’m one myself. And so it’s hard work. I get it. And so what happened is they would give me one person. When I had that meltdown, literally, in the office, I was just, like, falling. I’ve never had that before. It was so embarrassing. But this person prescribed cortisol, and I’m like, okay, because she said, your cortisol is off. She did the cortisol steady. My cortisol was totally inverted, which I know you know how that is.
03:03
Heather
And I would be up at night, all wired, and then I would just be dragging my butt all day, and she’s like, take this cortisol, whatever it was. I don’t know if it was a homeopathic or a glandular, but that didn’t really work. And so it just was starting from there. Doctor after person, acupuncturist, I saw dos, I saw MD homeopaths, I saw integrative MDs, I saw, I don’t know, everything in between. I just was desperate to find a way to help myself feel more stable overall because it always felt like one day I’d feel good, and then the next three weeks I’d feel like crap, and then it would be all over the place. And so I never had this stability and this ongoing feeling okay, feeling like I can handle whatever.
03:48
Heather
It became more and more over time, where I felt sort of not just ungrounded, but more insecure in my own self, and that I had to start protecting myself more. It was this really weird, vicious cycle, because I never knew how I’d feel on any given day, how well I’d sleep, how I would feel getting up. And it started to just drain my whole spirit over the years. And what happened was in about 2010, eleven, by that point, my sleep issues were so severe, I resorted to medication, which that’s not who I am. I always have been totally focused on natural things. And I was so desperate because it was starting to undermine my ability to do my work effectively.
04:27
Heather
And then it became all about how do I get sleep and how do I do whatever hours of clients I have well, so I can go home and just be like. And not have any stressors. So it was just this horrible place I was in of feeling like, it was like me against my body and against the world. Like everything was against me.
04:46
Dylan Petkus, MD
Yeah. And that’s so common in people’s journey, where you’re just trying to juggle all these things and just trying to move forward because life goes on, but just because your gut issues kind of flare-up or fatigue are set in, you get in a crash, the bills don’t stop coming, the obligations are still there, and you have to keep moving. That’s one of the awesome things about Heather, is she said the d word, desperate. But really, when you think about, that’s just someone who’s committed to finding something that works. But the issue is, it’s not the doctor’s fault. It’s just the fact that the standard box that everyone operates in doesn’t always contain what you need to overcome this.
05:24
Dylan Petkus, MD
But really the interesting thing is you do need to go through that journey to an extent, then to be outside of the box, you kind of got to feel the walls of it. And what I really like about Heather is just being someone who’s like, she’s gone down the list of all the things, like, hey, it doesn’t work, doesn’t work. And just keep going. And that’s really one of the things that, it’s a necessary part of the journey, but at the same time, then it starts to build up. Like you had this cycle, like, okay, item number 17 didn’t work. Oh, crap. Exactly.
05:55
Heather
Well, then it started to become about, what’s wrong with me? I’m the exception. I’m just irrefutably, permanently broken. I did so many things when I was having the sleep issues so severely, I decided, I’m going to do gaps, diet, gut, and psychology syndrome. It has to be my gut. Like, I’d always come back to the gut, right? That’s the key to everything. That’s where all the illness starts, blah, blah. You know, what you hear? And I mean, I ate so much soup, it was ridiculous. I made everything. The key for, I mean, I just did all this stuff. Like, I can do all that, but at some point, it becomes counterproductive because I’m not getting enough return on my investment. And the time I spend on doing all this stuff and getting these, spending all this money anyways.
06:34
Heather
And so I would try to figure out what’s the thing. Is it the candida? Is it just about the histamine? Which I didn’t even know that was a problem for the longest time. Okay. Now it’s probably perimenopause I mean, it’s just ridiculous. Like the list goes on and on, and at a certain point I just throw my hands up and I just say, screw it, and then I’ll come back around. And it’s a cycle over and over of trying these things, me being on Google Doctor, trying to figure it out, let’s try another person. And so I’d get my hopes up, exactly. I’d get my hopes up and then put the all in and spend this money in the time and try to be on the schedule and take this thing then and get overwhelming eventually.
07:14
Heather
And then I would just be like, I have this box of supplements, literally. And then I’d go through it every several years and I’d have to toss out a bunch of stuff because it’s over, it’s past eight. And so I thought, I don’t know if I’m ever going to get through this. And my husband’s just like, what are you doing? All these things, you never seem to really get back better. Then, of course, I’d be mad at him. And so there’s this exponential side effects, right, of how it undermines my vitality at work and feeling like I’m never going to get to where I want to go when I’m always having this battle within myself.
07:43
Dylan Petkus, MD
The secondary condition of fatigue and chronic health issues is what I like to call the one thingitis where it’s like, oh, it’s the gut. Oh, it’s the oligosaccharides and things. It’s inulin and you just bounce from thing to thing. And when you keep going so superficial, you can never really get super deep. And I will ask you later, do you still think it’s just the gut? But what I want to sort of focus in on is in terms of where exactly were you in terms of your histamine intolerance, gut issues, sleep fatigue, brain fog. Right at the moment that you started working with us?
08:22
Heather
Well, it wasn’t as severe because I had to resort to some pretty extreme practices. I wasn’t a purist by any means, but I tend to go back over and over again to this carnivore thing, which I know is like, coming up now was the keto, and it’s just always, some crazy meat is in. I’ll be honest, I’ve been a sucker for those because it’s like, maybe this will heal me, maybe this will heal my gut, right? No lectins and no. And it’s going to be the thing, and then it would eventually get to be like, I’m so freaking tired of eating meat, I’m going to throw up, or, right, I can’t socialize, or I just don’t have an appetite, and I’d start craving carbs. And then another vicious cycle would come.
09:02
Dylan Petkus, MD
I can’t eat one more pound of ground beef. I can’t do it.
09:05
Heather
Exactly. So basically where I was at is knowing deep down inside, like, yeah, I could probably get by with this, but I still don’t like the fact that I’m probably going to wake up every night. I might sleep through the night, say one night, two nights a month or three nights a month, because then you add the perimenopause on, it’s like a whole nother level of disruption. So if I would have been better because I did something, now I have a new set of health issues, right, with the aging process. And so that was really hard. And so even though I felt like it was tolerable, I’m just not willing to settle for, oh, this is as good as it’s going to get.
09:44
Heather
You’re never going to sleep through the night, and I’m not going to be able to exercise the way I want to. And most days I’ll have that kind of real achy, sort of acidic feeling in my muscles. Not all days, but more often than not. So I never can enjoy doing something that might require a little bit of intensity or demand on my system, which is not fun. Right? I feel like I’m aged and I’m not that old. And so I’m 51, whatever. And then as far as the gut goes, like, the histamine thing was still a really big problem for me if I ate anything that had histamine, the cheese, not that I drank hardly at all, but if I wanted to have any alcohol or just even spinach, that kind of stuff, bacon. I mean, I love bacon, let’s be honest.
10:31
Heather
And so I would have instant redness. And then I don’t know how many nights I’d go to bed with. My whole torso would be so itchy, and it would be like to where I would wake up sometimes in the morning, I’d have a scratch on myself. I’m like, holy cow, I’m injuring myself because this itchiness is just so aggravating. And so I’d be scratching myself. And then what I’ve noticed is when the histamine levels would be too elevated, I just would not sleep well. It’s like I was half awake all night, and this sort of buzziness, it’s horrible. If anyone doesn’t know it, they’ll know it when they have an allergy reaction from the environment. It has the same impact on you. And so I resorted once in a while to Benadryl, which is so horrible. I hope it’s not too noisy in the background.
11:14
Heather
I would be desperate, though, just to sleep through the night every once in a while. And especially if I knew that I had a histamine and my bucket was overflowing, then I wasn’t going to sleep well. And I know that Benadryl is like the devil now, and it causes dementia. And I’m just like, that’s how bad it gets, though. It’s like I’m willing to have the risk of getting dementia so I can sleep now because it’s just getting so annoying, then I just be even more tired. So then what do you do? Right?
11:41
Dylan Petkus, MD
Yeah. I mean, that’s why so many people, even a lot of my peers, it comes up kind of casual conversation, like, oh, yeah, I forgot my ambient last night, so I couldn’t sleep. And these are people who are like, late 20s, early thirties, and it’s just really such an epidemic of people not being able to sleep and then really being a part of this whole health issue where, yes, you may start out as a gut, but then it really comes together with all these other things start to pile on top, the hormones, the sleep issues all together. And the one thing about that is that you can have that, but there’s also, you have the option to say, okay, this is normal. Hey, everyone else is on Ambien. Cool, sign me up.
12:22
Dylan Petkus, MD
Or you can be like, whoa, just because it’s normal does not mean it’s acceptable for me. And that’s really the decisions you were making year after year after year. And then you saw us and you were like, maybe. What did you see? You were like, this is different. What is going on here? Who are these people? Why do they always have really lousy audio and video except for today? And maybe I should give this a shot. What was sort of going through your mind there?
12:51
Heather
Well, it’s like, these folks know something I don’t know, and I can’t stand for that. I want to know the secret sauce. What are these ingredients that they’re using in order to help boost the overall system? Right. That’s always what I’m looking for. I think intuitively I understand that. It’s not like one thing is going to be the cure, all right? That’s just our wishful thinking. And we just want that easy fix and it’s going to be just this one thing. And okay, maybe that works for the random one out of 1000 people, but for most of us, there’s a system here. I understand that. I understand there’s a system and there’s a holistic approach that we can espouse in order to help bring about the conditions to allow our bodies to optimize themselves or to heal themselves. And I’ve always believed that.
13:34
Heather
It’s just that I didn’t understand how to have the bigger picture or what all the pieces were that I need to be able to incorporate into my daily practices in order to be able to allow my body to heal. So I would try this, that and the other, right? And I didn’t have a comprehensive approach and I didn’t really understand even close to breaking the surface as to where your knowledge starts, right? The depth of your knowledge. I just hear you say a couple of sentences. I’m like, oh my God, that’s mind-blowing. Like, of course, it all makes sense now. And it’s like you just like if I have a connect the dots map, right? And I’m like, I got half of that filled in. I’m like, well it looks okay.
14:15
Heather
And you come in and just paint this whole canvas of like, no, here it is. I’m like oh my God, of course I can’t get like, I’m only getting half of the results when I don’t have all the pieces of the puzzle and they’re not integrated and I’m not following the sequence of what my body can tolerate at any given moment, right? Because of course, I can only do so much at one time. My body can only use so much at one time. And so the way that you lay it all out and this sort of big picture overview, but then bringing it down into the practical, every day, doable steps is just like, that’s exactly what I needed. Because I don’t want to just be okay. I want to feel like I’m going to be healthy for the next 40 years, right?
14:57
Heather
I have family, my grandparents all live into their late nineties so I should be able to do that as well, ideally. So I want to set myself up for success and keep practices going. And even more important than all that is just having the belief that yes, I can be healthy. I don’t have to carry on this whole mentality of like, well, I can only do so much and I can’t whatever, I just had all these limitations and then I would have all this fear like, oh, my God. I would literally be like, okay, how busy is my week? How am I going to make it through the week? Doing my best and not get too many demands on me, especially when I was at my worst. I just was kind of paranoid about, what are the demands on me?
15:41
Heather
And I would go to bed stressing about, oh, my gosh, I have to get up early and it’s going to be hard. What if I don’t sleep? It’s all the time. And now I don’t even think about any of that stuff. I do my things. I trust I can feel it in my body. And it’s weird because as I was driving to work this morning, I’m like, what is exactly different? I just feel this sense of calm inside and this sense of, I don’t think energy really does it justice, but it emanates from the inside, this stability, this solidity of my body feeling like, I got this, it’s okay. And the level of stress overall, interestingly, has come down because I don’t have that sense of like, oh, no. That always was in the background, even if I wasn’t aware of it.
16:26
Heather
It’s this internal knowing of like, it’s okay, I got this, and I’ll handle whatever comes up. And being able to manage the hour-to-hour, day-to-day tasks that then end up me feeling like things are really working well. Instead of me just surviving, I want to be thriving and not just surviving.
16:42
Dylan Petkus, MD
Yeah. And that’s one of the key things that allows you to go through that whole thing, be able to be like, okay, I’m keeping my on this prize. And you start where so many people do, where they have all these pieces of information, right? And they connect a few of them, like, okay, the gut and adrenals, those are kind of connected. But then really you need to go from that information to knowledge, which is when you’re able to connect all of them. And then really the next step is, which are the important things to actually be pushing the buttons on, which is going into sort of the wisdom of the system, which is why when you try just the individual dots, gap side over here, I’m going to do CrossFit. Don’t do CrossFit if you have a.
17:24
Heather
Kettlebell almost killed me. So I learned my lesson.
17:27
Dylan Petkus, MD
Yeah, there you go. Death by Kettlebell. And so that’s when you go from pieces of information, link them all together, then you’re putting it into action. Those are really the three things necessary to really be able to be a human who’s able to do what humans should do. Go for a hike, be able to intuitively listen, and check in with themselves. Yeah, I’m a little stressed out. Like, yeah, I don’t really care about that person honking on me, whatever. And just be able to be in a state where your body is not just constantly stressed out because you address the whole system.
18:00
Heather
Right. Which includes the mental focus and the mindset. Because I think that even though I’ve worked in those areas with my clients, for me, around my health, I was really just not in a place where I was able to improve that. And when I mentioned kettlebells, there’s the shame that comes around with feeling like you’re deficient somehow or you just can’t dial it in, or you can’t get it right. After all the things that I’ve tried, and I was doing the kettlebells and after like six months, I couldn’t even get through the day without taking a nap. I was exhausted. It messed up my cycle. I mean, it was like, ridiculous. And so why couldn’t I do it? Why isn’t exercise going to heal me? And I didn’t get that. That was just doing the opposite and further debilitating me.
18:40
Heather
And it feels like, so annoying. But also I felt defective. And so the mindset work for me was really key in helping me to. It’s all connected, right? So as long as I’m having a bunch of trash talk about myself up here and not trusting myself and not being kind to myself, it’s never going to help facilitate the healing in the rest of me. So I look at that holistic picture that you bring, which is just like totally invaluable and so wise, like you’re saying the wisdom of being able to see all the pieces that have to all go together.
19:14
Dylan Petkus, MD
Yeah. And also doing the things in the right order, because kettlebells may be good for you in about two months or so, but two months ago, definitely not. And that’s like sort of the conventional wisdom. Like, oh, you’re tired. Have you tried exercising a little bit more? Which doesn’t really make any sense intuitively. And even when they try to force that on you, it’s just kind of like, I don’t know about this. I get more tired and I feel like I worked out all week when I only worked out on Monday and now it’s Saturday. So understanding the proper order you need to be going in and all that is crucial, critical. And in terms of some of the immediate results that you saw when we started working together.
19:54
Dylan Petkus, MD
What were some of the few, in terms of your energy levels, your sleep, eating histamine foods, what was going on there?
20:01
Heather
Well, it’s interesting how dramatically, how quickly things started to shift, because I don’t even think I even noticed at first. I’m like, oh, yeah, I’m not turning red all the time. And I can actually eat oysters or seafood because I love seafood. I can eat, for example, salmon, or I can have bacon. Now I can’t eat a whole pack of bacon every day, because then wouldn’t we love to?
20:24
Dylan Petkus, MD
Yeah, we all love.
20:24
Heather
I would totally love to. The histamine does. I don’t break it down that fast yet. I will. I know, soon, but I still have to be mindful. But the histamine thing pretty much went away with eating a moderate to mild to moderate amount of histamine foods, which is like a miracle. I’m like, oh, can’t eat these things ever again. And spinach, like, who knew, right? So high in histamine. And I thought, I can eat it now. I used to literally have my nose running constantly, and it was so embarrassing that I didn’t feel professional sitting with clients and having my nose run. It was just intolerable. And so now I feel that confidence in being able to eat a little bit of food that I love that has histamine and know that I’m not going to be destroyed. And I don’t look, like, unprofessional.
21:11
Heather
Like, I’m always sick because people don’t know. People don’t know. I’m like, no, I don’t have COVID. No, I don’t have the flu or whatever. I just have this system. Who cares, right? But I don’t want them to think that I have some illness. So that’s almost gone. And then sleeping through the night happened, to be honest, pretty quickly. I was shocked that I could go from. I usually would wake up, like, two to three, and be up for an hour, sometimes an hour and a half, and then go back to sleep. And then when the alarm would go off, I’d just be, like, fried because I was just starting to sleep deeply, and then I’d have to get up. So now I do the proper protocol, right?
21:49
Heather
And by ensuring that I set myself up for success at night, by doing the things my body really wants me to do. But before, even if I was tired, I’d be like, no, I got to do this stuff and stay up till, whatever, late 12:00 at night, I do what my body wants me to do. And now I can sleep through the night most nights, right? And I know that’s going to continue to improve, especially when I do the things I know I should do and stop doing the things I know that sabotage me. And so that’s just a miracle to me.
22:19
Heather
I never thought that I could regularly sleep through the night and not be waking up at that awful hour in the middle of the night when I don’t know what is happening, but it’s something powerful and just wake up and feel like I can face the day because I’d wake up feeling so horrible. And then unfortunately, that would set a negative tone for the day. So now I can wake up feeling at least neutral, if not refreshed. And then I do whatever practices I can do. Because before, the thought of doing things in the morning to help myself, other than showering and eating and just leaving was like, no, are you kidding me? I didn’t even sleep. I don’t have time to help myself have a positive mindset in the morning. Why would I do that when I am exhausted?
22:59
Dylan Petkus, MD
I know, right? And the totally facetious question here, and we did all that with a bunch of blood tests and supplements and super restrictive diets, right?
23:08
Heather
None, none of those. That wasn’t necessary.
23:16
Dylan Petkus, MD
Yeah. And a lot of people when we say that, they’re like, liar, pants on, higher. But it’s just another thing where, like, you’re in this box, you need to go over this box. And that’s so much of where the success really is. And yes, there’s the mindset component, which is kind of part of this box. But when someone says, oh, I do mindset work, they’re just like, yeah, I use the calm app for like ten minutes a day and I’m like, I’m an enlightened Zen master. I don’t need any mindset work. You can take your mindset work over to that vegan restaurant because there’s so much of it, right.
23:51
Dylan Petkus, MD
Because we do mind, we do the body, which is making sure a lot of, some parts of your metabolism, if that’s weak over there, we’re going to get in and fix that with certain things. And then also making sure everything’s properly timed and then the environment component, because it’s not going to be either one of the things you need to be doing all of them together. That’s what Heather was talking about in terms of just like the layers of complexity of the whole system. And only when you address that’s when you’re able know, go from, I haven’t slept through the night in. Was it, like seven years?
24:26
Heather
A long time. Yep, a long time.
24:28
Dylan Petkus, MD
And then, like, two, three weeks in, we see a post in the private group. Like, I slept through the night.
24:34
Heather
Well, I was so ecstatic. I mean, I’m like, really? It really works. How amazing is that?
24:39
Dylan Petkus, MD
Yeah.
24:40
Heather
You think it would be this, like, you have to go through this arduous process and do a million things. It’s not really that. It’s just dialing in the right combination. Right. And making sure that you’re following the suggestions that you give us to do it. And so it works. I was like, yes, I’ll do more of this then. And then I’m super motivated, right? I’m super motivated to continue and to just make sure that I’m doing all the things with grace and not, like, checking the box, like, no, I want to do this. This is what it feeds me. This is what is going to allow me to have a more vibrant.
25:17
Dylan Petkus, MD
You know, when you’re that motivated person. Because you guys may not have noticed this so far, but Heather is a super detail-oriented person. And for the Q&A forms, she has the number one gold medal for questions per Q&A session of just like, boom, boom, boom. What’s going on with all these things? And it was really fun to help her because when someone like her is like, she’s doing all these things, she’s committed. That’s when you give someone a piece of information, and then it’s going to go through that process of information, knowledge, wisdom, and transformation. And that’s what was such a, I think, really fun for me. I enjoyed doing the whiteboard sessions. Did you enjoy the whiteboard sessions?
25:57
Heather
Yes, definitely.
25:59
Dylan Petkus, MD
I was like, oh, here’s how your mitochondria, they’re shooting electrons here. And what we need to do is make sure they’re like this.
26:06
Heather
So much easier to understand these difficult concepts, right, that it shouldn’t be inaccessible. And that’s what your gift is to make something that seems intimidating and that seems so mysterious or complicated, easy to visualize, because you can easily, in a picture, a visual, explain exactly how this process works. And it’s interesting, as you say, that because life is just really one big process, right? And everything affects everything. And so, of course, there’s a cause and effect for what we subject ourselves to internally in our mind, and then externally in the food. All of that matters. And so you’re able to help us visualize that big cause-and-effect impact. But like a diagram and make it make sense and make it graspable to somebody like me, who’s not a medical professional that way that you are.
26:57
Heather
So I think that’s just like so powerful because I think intuitively we all kind of understand these things, but how much we’re willing to accept responsibility for one and to face the truth of how we’re living and the impact on what we choose to do, whatever that is, the effect that it has on ourselves. So anyway, I just really appreciate your ability to, and your willingness to get out the whiteboard and be like, let me break it down for you. And it’s all right here.
27:25
Dylan Petkus, MD
But grad school, that’s what that was where I was like always at the whiteboard. How much would you say that? Because one of the biggest things is that people come in with this mindset where it’s like, all right, well, I already tried this functional medicine doctor and his ashwagandha, whatever, and then when we start to teach people, how much do you feel, your perspective just went like complete, like 180 bigtime.
27:47
Heather
Well, because I feel like a lot of what you see out there is about what you were describing of if you just do this or just do this one thing, and you can’t just go in one way, you have to start in the right place and with the right pieces, like you’re saying. And it’s not about one herb or anything like that. It’s about understanding the processes and where is it breaking down and how do you get that started again? How do you get the key things started again? Because if you’re thinking you’re going to take something over here for your digestion, but really back here is where the problem is. You’re just wasting your time and money. I’ve spent thousands of dollars.
28:31
Heather
I mean, I don’t even want to know the number, but it’s a lot of money over the last, whatever, 20 years, basically trying to figure out how to fix myself again, the gut. But then I’d go all over the place and I basically feel like I got very minimal return on any of that. And so if I were to turn around and be where I was before, and I would do the same thing, all we’re going to come to work with you because I needed that guidance where somebody was going to help me to focus and help me understand why and not because I can do that. Look at this, and I’ll be all over the place wasting my time and money and then feeling defeated when it really doesn’t have to be like, yeah.
29:17
Dylan Petkus, MD
That is so much what we do. And so much what we talk about, it’s just like, someone will be like, oh, dylan, should I take. I’m like, most of the time, the answer is no. And one of my favorite quotes to really embody this is, and I really hope this happened. Michelangelo, he made David the sculpture, and the pope at the time held an audience. They viewed the statue, and there was a big ceremony, and then the pope turns to Michelangelo and asks, so how’d you make that? And Michelangelo says, oh, I just removed everything. That was not David, which I think is, like, the funniest. I’m surprised he didn’t get immediately taken to the gal is, but it’s a bit of a “smart” answer.
29:58
Dylan Petkus, MD
But that really is the answer, because as you appreciate how nature works, what that means for your biology, what that means for our lives today, you end up removing a lot of things. Yes, there’s some time, as you need to add some things in. If there’s an unnatural balance, maybe you got to kind of fat a with another unnatural thing. So you kind of get that kind of sweet spot. But just because you’re taking a bunch of grams of all these b vitamins now, doesn’t mean you need to take them in six months from now, because they can actually further imbalance the system. So understanding, sort of that give and take there is critically important. And the one thing, in terms of your physical and sort of your mental energy, where would you say that is now in comparison to eight weeks ago?
30:45
Heather
Well, embarrassingly, I had the hardest time focusing for years, and I think it’s just, I’m a voracious reader, but I hadn’t been able to really focus enough to read through a lot of books. I’d start a lot of things, start a lot of books, and start a lot of projects. And so my stamina, the mental energy, I needed to be able to, without a lot of effort, in other words, like, without a lot of struggle, like, I’d have to really force myself to stay with something, and then it would be like, it felt really taxing, because that energy I didn’t have, even if it’s just mental focus, it’s amazing how much energy it can take from our system to be in that moment of really zeroing in on a project or trying to create something.
31:27
Heather
And so that was really challenging for me, and it would be a big struggle. And so that was one piece. What was the other one? You said the physical.
31:35
Dylan Petkus, MD
The physical?
31:36
Heather
Yeah, the physical fatigue, the physical. It wasn’t like I was bedridden, although I would probably go through cycles of, I don’t think I had like a ton of crashes I used to, but I would definitely be to where I felt restricted. Like, I only go to work. I don’t do anything that’s too physically demanding, which is totally not how I was when I was younger. I mean, I would be jogging, hiking, I would do all this stuff. I wasn’t out surfing or anything, but I would like to be, but I just felt really limited. And also I’d be dragging. Like I’d feel heavy and I’d feel draggy and I’d get really sleepy in the afternoons, that kind of stuff. So just feeling kind of like blip.
32:15
Heather
And so now, like I was telling you last weekend, I was so excited because I was able to go on a hike for the first time in years. It wasn’t a 50-mile hike or anything. It was, for me, though, a big deal. And I was carrying my dog, even on my back in a backpack because she’s old. And so that’s like an extra 20 pounds. So just to think about that, I could go on a hike with these hills that for me were plenty taxing and feel like I had plenty of energy to do that and feel good afterward and not feel like I was at any kind of risk. And in fact, I felt more rejuvenated, which which would not have been the case before, was amazing.
32:57
Heather
And I thought, now I know this is really like, if I needed any more proof, that’s it. I can really be in an experience physically and enjoy it versus thinking, oh my God, how much further? Or am I going to make it? Or whatever, some sort of disastrous thoughts of, this is too much for me. It wasn’t like that at all. It was actually to be really in the moment and really enjoy being outdoors, which I find I enjoy so much more nowadays because it feels nourishing, whereas before it felt like, oh my gosh, it’s too cold or whatever, it’s like taking from me. And so totally flipped that around and just the fact that I’m not even thinking about it now, like, how is my body going to hold up today? It’s not even an issue at all.
33:43
Heather
It’s really more about what do I get to do today, what am I excited to do today and how am I supporting myself in my practices so that I can continue to enjoy my life versus feeling like I have to be prepared for in case I don’t make it or in case I run out of fuel. It’s a totally different place to be.
34:03
Dylan Petkus, MD
Yeah. When you go through all of that, and you’re just. Because some of the hardest parts of going through this journey is you don’t have those steps in front of you to go up. It’s just like, you go up a little bit and then crash. But when you’re able to. Because part of your journey was like, you were able to go for a walk to the market, then you walk to your office. Now you’re walking on a 45-minute hike with your 20-pound pooch. And then the path is so much clearer because now you have the right principles in place. You’re like, you’re on a boat and you finally have a sail that works, is how I like to think of it, and that really allows you to take that trajectory.
34:49
Dylan Petkus, MD
And then one of the last questions is, what would you say to the Heather from eight weeks ago when you were watching that webinar? And you’re like, what the heck is this? What is he talking about?
35:02
Heather
What would I say to myself insofar as how I would advise myself or what?
35:06
Dylan Petkus, MD
Yeah, were just watching that and just thinking, like, is this something? Is this guy just a wacko?
35:15
Heather
I guess, because I’ve seen so many people over the years, and I watched your webinar, and I could just tell by the way you were explaining things that you knew what the heck you were talking about. Right. And that you had that confidence. And there’s just energetically, I could feel that you really knew and that there was something that you figured out that I haven’t yet, which is what I said I really wanted to know. And so, basically, I am a person who is able to trust people when I sense that you have a good heart and you and Dr. Molly have a good heart, and I could tell that you’re in this to really help people. And the other thing is, since I know you’ve both been through your own individual journeys around these kinds of health issues that have been pretty serious.
35:59
Heather
And so that’s what allowed me to trust you and really to get that I’m in good hands. And it’s time for me to take this up about 500 notches, because I’m tired of dilly-dallying around, and I want to have experts who specialize in this one thing. Right. And they know how to work with that one thing, and I obviously don’t. And there are lots of people who say that they know how to work with this. But when I heard you and then I vetted you, I checked on. Okay, are these people, really, who say they are, and then you were. And so being in your other group, your public group, it’s like, no, this is what I want. This is what I need.
36:37
Heather
And I’m going to invest in my health and happiness so that I can have another 40 years that are totally different from the past 20 years of struggle and suffering. And you are the ticket. And so I banked on that, and it infinitely paid me back, and I know that it’s going to keep paying me back. So I don’t know. I would say the same thing to myself. I watched the webinar, and I think I was on a call with you the same day, if not the next day. It was just like, bam, I’m ready to go.
37:06
Dylan Petkus, MD
Yeah. Because when you start to just see, whoa, this is a little bit different, because even in the webinar, I say a lot of the things out there is just like, same pig, different shade of lipstick, a lot of the ways not to really knock a lot of the things, because some branches of medicine work best for others, but for these fatigue issues need a whole sort of different thing. And I do wish that we knew a little bit less about health, because then maybe we would look a little bit older. But unfortunately, we do really look at people always ask, like, oh, how old are you, really? And I’m like, 29. They’re like, no way. That’s awesome.
37:44
Heather
I think that’s great, though. What does it matter when I start out as a therapist at 38, by the time I got my private practice going, I don’t know what I was 42 ish, and they were like, how old are you? But I’ve always looked younger than my age. And I thought eventually I got to this place where it’s like, if you want to find somebody who’s older, go ahead. That’s fine with me because we’re not a good fit to work together. If you want what I have to offer, even if my appearance doesn’t match my skill level, that’s okay. Either way, I’m good, so it’s okay. And now I don’t get that as much anymore. I guess I’ve aged a little. That was 15 years ago, but whatever, I still get it sometimes. And I’m like, used to be self-conscious about it.
38:26
Heather
I’m like, that’s ridiculous. Now I’m like, hey, let’s deserve this. So I can be 70 and still look 40 or whatever. Not 40.
38:33
Dylan Petkus, MD
You can only be helped out by 90-year-old people that sit on the top of mountains. And wait for you to climb up there. That’s the thing.
38:40
Heather
Healers that are very young and are you going to discredit them and not take in that wisdom just because you’re going to hold an age grudge? That’s really immature, I think.
38:49
Dylan Petkus, MD
Yeah, there’s all those barriers in terms of just getting to something that works, in terms of really being able to find a thing that works. That’s what really we do calls. We call them energy breakthrough calls, fatigue breakthrough calls, where we really talk about what the big issues for you are and get really crystal clear on what’s going on, where we find out exactly what’s going on with your sleep, what’s going on with the energy levels. Why are you having these cycles up and down? What is that doing for you? And also what you can be doing about that, what are sort of your goals and how are the best ways you can move through that? And if we think that you’re going to be an awesome fit, we can help get you there. We’ll talk about what that looks like.
39:33
Dylan Petkus, MD
But really, the first step of that is grabbing a time there, filling out the pre-call form and then just talking to me or a member of our team. And so I just want to thank Heather so much today for her time and getting to connect with her again. One of my favorite clients I think we’ve had who is just very on top of it, asking questions, making me feel like I’m like, oh, man, I got to explain this. And I’m thinking like, okay, let me do the whiteboard like this. And so it’s just really fun for me to get back in that mode. Thank you for doing that.
40:02
Heather
You’re welcome.
40:03
Dylan Petkus, MD
It’s just really been a pleasure to see you go from just like two weeks in, you’re sleeping through the night. Five weeks in, I think you had, like five nights in a row sleeping through the night. And now you’re able to hike with your dog on your back, which isn’t a small.
40:17
Heather
I know, right.
40:21
Dylan Petkus, MD
Really just nothing but praise and admiration for you and just your ability to, of course, we give you the things to do, but you got to do them right. This is not like one of those fitness products where, like, you take this pill and then you’re Brad Pitt. It’s really something you got to really stick to and work with and continue with it. And that’s just how you succeed, really, at anything. And you’re able to pull that off incredibly well.
40:47
Heather
Well, and that’s why the call is so important. Because you have to be committed and know what you really want. Like, you’re not going to get a magical answer. And magical thinking is not what this is about. It’s about, are you tired of suffering? Are you willing to show up for yourself? Are you willing to take a stand for yourself basically and be defiantly committed to changing this? And that’s really what it requires. Whatever it takes. Being consistent, which is something that I’ve been working on. And this has allowed me to become much more consistent in all my practices, not just the ones for my health, but the business stuff and so forth.
41:24
Heather
If I think back now and I wouldn’t have taken that call with you or decided to have the call with you and done the program, I don’t even want to think about it because it just is the dark place. It just didn’t feel good at all. And so now I feel basically like I got out of jail is what it feels like getting out of that jail, of the fatigue and then all the emotional darkness that goes with it. I’m just like, no, I want to call you guys. You got to stop it.
41:52
Dylan Petkus, MD
Mean, that’s really what we do. We say we help you get over your fatigue, but it’s really break out of that prison and then be able to be in a position of where Heather knows exactly what she needs to do to create the exact life she wants now.
42:05
Heather
Right.
42:05
Dylan Petkus, MD
It’s not something where you do this thing for eight weeks and like, oh, if you need some more of these secret sauce, you got to come back and see it. No, it’s like she has a general framework now that’s built on a strong foundation where she can just continue to go up for the rest of her life. And that’s really what this is all about, making sure that however many years you have left, 1020, 30, 40, 50, that you’re able to get the most out of that. Some people say you get more days in your life, but really just as important as more life in those days.
42:37
Heather
Exactly. It’s the. Appreciate you and Dr. Molly, thank you so much for everything. And all the hours you spent with.
42:45
Dylan Petkus, MD
Me, with all my questions, they were great. Molly would be here, but she’s working a shift right now. She’ll have to. And I was curious, can we do like a try call? I wasn’t sure, but so we just did us, too. All right, Heather. All right, great speaking with you and look forward to interacting with you more and just seeing more of your awesomeness where you’re out hiking, I’m not sure what the biggest mountain range is in California, but maybe we’ll set up, okay?
43:14
Heather
Yes, certainly. All right, doctor. Thank you so much. Bye bye.