Dr. Dylan Petkus Reviews Irina’s journey with sleep apnea from an AHI of 51 to 1 and how her energy and brain function soared.
00:00
Dylan Petkus, MD
Hey, everyone, this is Dr. Dylan Petkus here. And I have a very special guest with us here that I want to be able to help her. Not help her. She can definitely talk for herself about showcasing that, you know, where she’s been, what she’s gone through, where she is now. A lot of times, like, you’re like, okay, you have sleep apnea, you’re stuck with this. CPAP is the only way and being able to, you know, demonstrate to people, like, there is hope, there are other paths available and be able to see what that is. So I want to welcome our very special guest client of ours, Irina here. So welcome. Thanks for being on the show.
00:48
Irina
Thank you, Dylan. I’m glad to be here, of course. Awesome. I’m happy to share my experience.
00:54
Dylan Petkus, MD
Excellent. So we’ll. We’ll start where it all started. So just kind of walk us through a little bit. Whether it was, like, when you first start to notice sleep issues, you were feeling tired. What did you start to notice in that process there?
01:12
Irina
For me, it started a few years ago. I didn’t necessarily think I had sleep issues until my physician told me that with my high blood pressure, I better do a sleep test. And I came up, came back with severe sleep apnea. And at that point, of course, I started looking for a solution, and the first thing they recommended was CPAP.
01:35
Dylan Petkus, MD
Gotcha. Yeah. Do you remember the number for AHI 51? Okay. That is indeed severe. That’s, I would call that severe exclamation point. That’s my clinical. That’s not an actual category for anyone at home. Okay, so. So even at 51, what kind of. So was it really only the blood pressure? Like, what. In terms of, like, say, fatigue, brain fog? Like, what were some of those signs? You’re like, something else ain’t right. What was that for you?
02:06
Irina
Well, the fatigue was there and brain fog was there. And I always thought that this was a sign, a side effect of, you know, aging hormones. I’m going to be 60 in a couple of weeks, so, you know, menopause and all that stuff. So that’s what I thought at the time.
02:22
Dylan Petkus, MD
Gotcha. Okay. And with that fatigue, because a lot of times, like, you know, when we had that first conversation, we have, like, we’re talking about these, like, functional metrics, like, at work or during workouts or on the weekends. Where did that fatigue, manifest for you? Most I kind of, what was that kind of limitation point, if you remember there?
02:42
Irina
It was always worse in the mornings. Surprisingly. You wake up, you expect to be rested. But my fatigue was always had. It takes me a while to get going. And then focusing on my work is the majority of my life. So focusing at work was difficult and I had to force myself through it. And I was not as effective as I wanted to be. That’s, that’s type of manifestations that I saw.
03:09
Dylan Petkus, MD
Yeah, gotcha there. Okay, so then that’s what you’re going through. And then they recommended CPAP. And then what was the, I guess after that where you’re like, no way, Jose. I’m assuming you’re Dr. No way, Jose.
03:22
Irina
Absolutely no way. I, first of all, I am, I work with infectious diseases. I develop blood tests. So when they told me that I have to stick this thing onto my nose and breathe through it, and it pushes wet, warm air through my nose and mouth into my lungs, I said, there’s no way in hell I’m using that thing. Because the potential for fungal infections is horrible there. But in general, I tried it for one night. I didn’t sleep. It actually didn’t help much. My sleep apnea, the thing kept falling off of me. No. And I, basically I, I returned it the next day.
04:04
Dylan Petkus, MD
Gotcha. No, I don’t blame you. I mean, that’s a, I mean, that’s something they, there’s a lot, there are many things they don’t tell you about a CPAP. It’s like, it’s like, hey, you know, try this out for three months and maybe on the other side of it, you’ll, things will be better. Okay. But yeah, reinfection is a real thing that I feel very few people ever talk about. Or, I mean, primary infection can happen, of course, but also reinfections. We’ve had people who, we’ve had people with COVID. We’ve had people with pneumonia or other upper respiratory infections, and then they’re sick for like three months at a time. Like, I don’t know what’s going on.
04:40
Irina
Oh, I totally believe that. Probably there are no statistics on it because as you can imagine, the industry doesn’t want anybody to know that. But I can see that happening.
04:50
Dylan Petkus, MD
Yeah, yeah. So it’s pretty wild. Okay, so then this CPAP and then because you’re well educated on health, so like, in terms of then like the next step, whether like oral appliance or other sorts of things, what did you set your sights on thereafter.
05:07
Irina
Well, first of all I lost weight and that should have been done a long time ago for just, not just for that reason but for many other reasons health wise. And that took it, that by itself took it to moderate. My numbers were like 15, 20, 25. So it was an improvement in itself. Then I tried one, a mouth appliance, or whatever they called an insert that basically pushed my jaw out. And at that point I got a tracker, I got a sleep tracker, apnea tracking, and basically I didn’t see much of a difference.
05:52
Dylan Petkus, MD
Okay, gotcha. So.
05:55
Irina
And after. Yeah, sorry.
05:57
Dylan Petkus, MD
Oh no, I was gonna say. Cause the, that’s the common experience where like weight loss, yes, helpful in many ways, but also most people don’t know that it’s about, for every 10 pounds of weight loss it’s about a 20, like 10 to 20% reduction score. So unless you have like 200 pounds to lose, you kind of get limited there. So then you went for the oral appliance. You definitely had an oral appliance. And then that was still just like eh, maybe a little bit more, maybe not. And then still feeling stuck kind of at moderate which can still have a massive impact.
06:36
Irina
Then I went to a very expensive doctor, supposedly one of the very few in the States who did a very customized, very expensive appliance. It was literally several thousand dollars. And this is the appliance that not only pushes your jaw out, but it also holds your mouth open so the tongue has a place to go. And this is when she told me that I do have a big, as you put it, big floppy tongue. And that’s probably contributing to the apnea and the appliance should help. It’s been quite a long ordeal. There were several. They measure you, they do all kinds of X-rays and scans and then they put the appliance together for you. It’s very customized. Then you have to use different straps and adjust the straps. I mean long story short, it didn’t do anything.
07:38
Irina
I was diligently wearing it and then I was tracking and I’m like let me see, what is it? Without. And my numbers were exactly the same. I was still in between 15 to 20, 25 and this thing is sitting in a drawer collecting dust.
07:54
Dylan Petkus, MD
Well something has to collect dust. Right? You know there’s dust to be collected. So that’s a good benefit. Many times they don’t tell you about, oh, that’s helpful. Okay, so you did that and then beyond that because then you were, you know, continuing the search, which is a big part of what really allows someone to succeed in a big part of your success as well. Because some people, like, they do the CPAP, like, well, that’s it. They do a mouth. Well, that’s it. But you kept going. So then you found us on the best places, you know, like the Internet. So what were those initial thoughts when you found us? And you’re like, what the heck is this? Like, what was that process like for you?
08:37
Irina
No, you know, by then I was already educating myself in
“alternative options” because obviously the mainstream options didn’t work for me. I already found my functional exercises. I started reading a little bit about oxygen saturation. And then, you know, it was fortunate that your ad came up on Facebook and I started listening. First of all, I think there was a video and I ordered the book and I ordered the first set of the initial breathing exercises and I did the breathing assessment. And then, honestly, when I started listening to your videos, I’m like, the light bulb went on in my brain. I’m like, this makes so much sense. And the fact that you support everything with literature. You know, me being a scientist is very important to me. I. I actually looked up some of the references that you cited.
09:33
Irina
I took pictures from the videos and I looked them up on PubMed.
09:37
Dylan Petkus, MD
Nice. Nice. Yes. These books behind me are not props. Yeah, they’ve been read maybe once, who knows? But yeah, so the. All right, so you’re out there, see us, and then what were like, what were some of the biggest light bulb moments of what you may have learned? Because I know if I’m thinking of the same videos you’re thinking of, I think there are like 800 PowerPoint slides. So what were some of those big aha moments for you?
10:08
Irina
Breathing the oxygen and versus CO2 saturation and the concept of, you know, the body reacting and basically closing up in response to low CO2 exchange. Right and then the connection to the mitochondrial function.
10:29
Dylan Petkus, MD
Got you.
10:30
Irina
Yeah. You know, like, I’m like, oh, okay. That makes a lot of sense.
10:34
Dylan Petkus, MD
Not things that get brought up on the same appointment where they’re like, well, here’s your. Where’s the? I don’t have the CPAP thing around here. Usually I have it as a prop, but not the. Nothing that gets brought up right away. Right. Because like, when you start to search online, if anyone wants to see more of my videos or even our ads, just say apnea three times. Near your computer, and then you’ll. You’ll find those things. But it’s so important to know there’s more to it, is what I’m trying to say. Like, it’s not just like, this mask or that mouth guard, etcetera. There’s a lot of metabolic things, a lot of things you can do with the breathing exercises.
11:09
Dylan Petkus, MD
And so then when you start to do the breathing exercises, then, like, when did you start to flip over into the idea of, like, okay, I’m doing these things? This makes a lot of sense. Like, let me reach out. What was that kind of matriculation of thoughts for you?
11:27
Irina
Well, you did schedule a call with me.
11:29
Dylan Petkus, MD
Did I schedule a call with you, or did I first? I forget.
11:33
Irina
Yeah, well, kind of both ways. I think you offered a call to everybody. And after I read through everything, I started doing breathing exercises. I can’t say that I saw the improvement right away, but I started noticing improvement with my functional exercises. And then I didn’t actually. I didn’t do breathing exercises for too long. I’m like, let me see what the program is about. Because the guy makes a lot of sense, supports everything he says with literature. I’ve tried pretty much everything else there is to try. Let me. Let me see what happens. So then you and I got on the call.
12:06
Dylan Petkus, MD
Gotcha. Okay. So we do the call, and we’re like, hey, this problem, that problem, etcetera, going over those things. And then the moment we, like, went through things, you’re like, okay, this seems like a good idea, or I guess actually let me even kind of go backward a little bit then, in reaching out or even, talking with me, what were kind of the initial doubts or concerns of, like, is this going to work? Or what the heck is this? What were your kind of initial hesitations there?
12:33
Irina
Yeah, so I didn’t have that many hesitations. After watching the videos and looking at the literature, I thought, okay, so I tried everything else. This. A lot of what this guy says makes sense. It’s supported by data. So why don’t I just jump in and see what happens?
12:50
Dylan Petkus, MD
Okay, so then you jump into the pool, the pool of breathing exercises and mitochondria and all sorts of fun stuff. And then what were those like as we were going along, like, what were some of those initial signs? You’re like, okay, this is going in the right direction. This was the right decision. Like, what were those initial signs for you?
13:11
Irina
You know, probably the first thing I noticed is my focus returned, the ability to focus on work in general. On work, on life. The ability to. And then, yeah, the ability to do work more efficiently and then more energy, definitely. I. Yeah, I started, like, not wanting to do nothing, and I started actually doing more things from around the house to, like, in my personal life and hanging out with friends more. And of course, work. Work’s been a tremendous difference. That was probably the earliest signs of going through the program.
13:53
Dylan Petkus, MD
Gotcha. Okay. So that was. That was initially. And then as we were going through, you know, kind of that four week, eight week mark, what were some of the challenges? You were starting to have challenges along the way. Because even there’s always challenges, everyone. But go ahead.
14:13
Irina
The challenges. So the breathing piece, exercise piece, that was easy, but it took a while to start having an effect. Because at the end, it is about sleep apnea. Right. And for a while, I didn’t see changes. So that was disappointing because, you know, I’m type A, so I’m like, get it going. Let’s get some results.
14:37
Dylan Petkus, MD
Yeah. Because I remember it was like if I were to have a graph. So over here is like week zero. Over here is like week 12. It was like. And then like. Like this. And then, like, the last three weeks were like. It was like.
15:01
Irina
Yeah. But if you. If you’re looking for, like, again for apnea. Score. AHI. Right. Right. So. So at first, it was kind of frustrating because it wasn’t improving, but I ended up with none too. Well, pretty much I’m under five most of the time. And sometimes there’s none. There’s 1, 1, 2, 3. It’s still there a little bit. Some nights I see, for example, the entire night I have nothing. Then I have like an hour when I have several occurrences. But that’s kind of like. Yeah, that was. Especially in the last few weeks that improved significantly.
15:42
Dylan Petkus, MD
Gotcha.
15:42
Irina
And it’s still there. I have an occasional spike to like, six, seven, but most of the time it’s under five.
15:48
Dylan Petkus, MD
Gotcha. Five for the entire night.
15:52
Irina
Mm.
15:52
Dylan Petkus, MD
Okay, so that is way less than five per hour. So. Yeah.
15:57
Irina
Yeah, yeah. No.
15:58
Dylan Petkus, MD
All right. It is making sure, because less than. Cause if that was five over eight hours. Oh, no one can do that math. I think that’s like 0.5. Let’s just say 0.5 per hour. So that’s a long way from 51. And then in the 20s and then less than. Let’s just say always less than 2. That would. That’s, I think, generous there. So awesome. So then when you have that, better sleep then. Then kind of how we talked about earlier, what are those kinds of functional metrics during the day? Then, what are some of those things now, whether it’s at work or in your workouts where it’s just almost like night and day for you.
16:39
Irina
Work is definitely night and day. Sleep is better, significantly better. It’s just we talked about it through the program. Like, I do get up at night once in a while, and that hasn’t changed. But again, I was looking for a reduction in apnea score, and I achieved that. So something that’s like, that’s how I’ve been sleeping all my life. So it doesn’t. Doesn’t matter to me. But there are major differences. Focus, energy. Breathing in general, I have to say, is better. Actually. I now go through very vigorous CrossFit workouts most of the time without being too much out of breath. I don’t know if it’s in general the level of energy that I have or the breathing exercises or a combination of those, but it certainly helped.
17:35
Irina
And another thing, another metric that I’m looking at, even when I have like, AHI score of 6 or 7, my blood oxygen remains very high.
17:48
Dylan Petkus, MD
Gotcha.
17:49
Irina
It’s not. It used to fluctuate almost 20% before, and now it’s under 10, sometimes under 5.
17:59
Dylan Petkus, MD
Sure. Nice. Yeah. Because a lot of the breathing exercises do a whole lot of things. I know.
18:08
Dylan Petkus, MD
We kind of purposely, in a way, get people fixated on the relaxed pause, because I think it’s the most important. I try to simplify things, but, yeah, there are metrics that improve. Like you mentioned oxygen, etcetera. Those are gonna go way up. Cause when you’re improving your relaxed pause, it’s not just, oh, I can now hold my breath slightly longer after my exhale. Cool. It means your body can also tolerate more CO2, which will help with, like, what you say you don’t feel out of breath, but they’ll also tolerate lower levels of oxygen as well. So even if you did dip down, then it. You’re gonna be a lot more resilient at night to that. Cool. Awesome. And then kind of like the last question to wrap us up here. So if you were to talk to yourself in sixth.
18:52
Dylan Petkus, MD
No, I’m just chicken. Joking. Not sixth grade, but when you were first starting out sleep apnea, whether it’s like you just got your first sleep study back or you were searching things online, what would you say to that version of you back then, knowing what you know now and where you are now.
19:10
Irina
Forget all that crap and start the program right away.
19:14
Dylan Petkus, MD
That’s the only correct answer, everyone. And get 10 copies of our book. No. So, yeah, the. I think in many ways, because I, you know, appreciate the sentiment of that, of course, but it’s also, there are alternatives. There are a lot of alternatives of where it’s not just, mask or bust. There are a lot of things out there, and the more you’re able to, like, kind of put into your hands, the better. Because, one of the things that has been fantastic in working with Irina is, I know she’s going to keep going with things. She may be frustrated, and rightfully so. If we go, like, two weeks and the relaxed pause hasn’t changed at all. That’s frustrating. It’s like, what the heck? But then, like, on the. On the flip side of that, it was almost like a. A bamboo plant.
20:05
Dylan Petkus, MD
And if people aren’t familiar, bamboo actually will spend the first two years of its life growing its roots, and then it will shoot up. Now, we know some plant biology for us here today, but, like, that’s what happens when you just stick with things. Because definitely, out of all the, you know, all the things, a lot of times people quit, but, you didn’t. You kept going, and that’s what allowed you to have that level of success in that container of having the guidance. Because when you are just, I don’t know, reading one of these books. Is that my book up there now? You know, that’s the only book that is obviously perfect in every way, but a lot of times people have the. They just kind of falter.
20:42
Dylan Petkus, MD
But, like, you kept going with things, and that’s what really allows you to have that. That little success there. So awesome work. Awesome.
20:50
Irina
Yeah. And just one more comment. I like the fact that the program is holistic. I don’t think it only addressed my sleep apnea. I think it’s as. As a result, it addressed some other issues. You know, just. Just thought of, like, having more energy, more focus is, you know, it’s amazing.
21:09
Dylan Petkus, MD
We try to sneak some things in. You know, it’s all very connected. So we try to, you know, sprinkle some. Some more on top there, but. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining us here, Irina. Really great to have you here and be able to share your story as an inspiration to people out there that there are a lot of more options possible. There’s a lot more out there for you if you’re someone who has severe apnea. I get this comment all the time. Like, is there hope for me? Yes. Yes, there is. All right. So I want to thank you for joining us and we’ll go ahead and sign off. So thanks, everyone, for watching and see you soon. Bye.
21:47
Irina
Thank you. Bye.