Dr. Dylan Petkus reviews how Moira had the worst sleep and is now back to living life after 10+ years of poor sleep, brain fog, and chronic fatigue syndrome.
00:00
Dylan Petkus, MD
All right. Hey, everyone. So want to introduce you to some of my favorite people at the 54th latitude, which is really far away from me, but nonetheless, they are here they are. They’ve come out from the winter tundra, and we’re going to talk today about how Moira and her lovely sidekick, David. I wasn’t pausing on your name. I was pausing on the proper title because I think sidekick is not lofty enough. You’re the lord of the estates. There we go. That’s more region. What we’re going to chat about today is literally what the banner says below, how Moira got her energy and her sleep back up to a level that allowed her to really, the big theme, has been like, to live again.
00:53
Dylan Petkus, MD
To be able to be someone who is able to be more consistent, be more reliable, be more dynamic, is one of our favorite words here. And without the usual stuff, without all the lab work, without all the supplements, I know I have a comma there. There shouldn’t be a comma after endless. But I’m not an English major. But what we are going to major in today is where Moira was when she was going through all of this. What were some of the big challenges she was having? And. Sorry, I just changed it there. That bugs me, really, some of the challenges she was having and being able to understand what she did in the past, why exactly that didn’t work for her, how she kind of stumbled into us, and then where she is today. And so this will be really exciting.
01:41
Dylan Petkus, MD
These guys are pretty funny. We only allow really funny people to work with us because that’s just how things are. It’s kind of a comedy club on the side. That’s kind of the bigger picture. And we also help people with their fatigue and energy levels and all of that. But with that being said, want to really get into Moira’s years story, and there’s no way I’m saying the full inflection of Moira. Now that sounds Spanish, but anyway, also David as well. Where were you guys, like, 8-10 weeks ago in terms of sleep consistency and when you’re awake, when you’re asleep, when you’re a zombie, when you’re something the opposite of a zombie? How would you describe that?
02:25
David
My sleep was fine.
02:30
Moira
I was in quite a state. I would say I was in bed more often than I was not. I didn’t function at all. I was barely functioning at all. I think probably the last time I cried was when I had Barb on the phone, which is a good thing. That was eight weeks ago. Ten weeks ago, I could not function. My life was nonexistent. Yeah. And David would come home from work maybe 06:00 p.m. And I would still be in bed. And I’d gone to bed maybe at 10:00 p.m. The night before. There were nights when I got no sleep at all. So I would end up on the couch downstairs. I would be wandering around. I was in pain. It was awful. It really was quite awful. I was at the end of myself, really, to be honest.
03:34
Moira
I did not know what to do, or who to see. I had been back to the doctor who had run blood tests, an ordinary set of blood tests, which showed up nothing. And at the moment, we are on phone calls only because of the COVID pandemic. So you can’t see anyone, really. And I said, well, what do I do? I am tired all the time. I’m not functioning. And the answer, again, was, “We can’t do anything for fatigue,” which is absolutely not what you want to hear when this person is supposed to help you. It was a very dark place. Very frustrating. Yeah, very unpleasant indeed.
04:23
Dylan Petkus, MD
Yeah, for sure, David. I mean, one of the things here that most people don’t always appreciate is fatigue is often something that affects more than one person. And so, how was this impacting you? What were you coming home to see and be like, okay, what version of Moira am I going to get today? How was that for you?
04:46
David
Well, you never knew what you were coming home to. Would she be up? Would she be conscious? Would she be in bed? Would the house be in darkness? And often, it was. Has anything happened since I left for work? Maybe not. And then do we have to start trying to work out what we’re going to have for tea? Are we going to have to get the dog walked? Are we going to have to get granny walked, who stays with us, etcetera? So you never knew at all. There was no consistency about anything. You didn’t know what you were coming home to. And then I’d get up in the morning and the light should be on downstairs, and she’s been up all night, or she’s been in bed all night.
05:42
David
You’d come in and try and speak to the heap in the bed and try and get a grunt or two, maybe forthcoming or may not be.
05:54
Dylan Petkus, MD
With that sort of unpredictability, inconsistency, and also just the who’s banging the pots and pans at 02:00 a.m. This is really what happens because a lot of people will cycle through where it’s just not like you start out with crashes and stuff like this, but then you can even get to a point where things are this out of whack and out of alignment, and that’s where things function really falls apart. Because if you’re not able to have a body that can sleep, that can be awake at the right hours, that’s when things aren’t really able to function well. And so to kind of help us understand a little bit more in terms of your function, how long would you be on the couch? What were you actually able to do? Like just the basics or not even that?
06:40
Moira
No, I would say there were long periods of time when I couldn’t even do the basics. It would not be possible. This is going to sound awful, but it would be a choice. Do I shower today? Do I use my energy for showering today? Or will I make the family a meal? Because I know I can’t do both. So, gosh, it’s quite upsetting, actually. There would be days where I wouldn’t make it to the shower. I would then be able to shove something in the oven for them to have something to eat in the evening. But there were choices to make because I certainly couldn’t have done a few things a day.
07:31
David
Sometimes breathing and another thing was difficult.
07:35
Moira
I can laugh now, but it’s not a funny place to be. I think I have thought of something I wanted to say. It’s like, I don’t think anyone outside your own body actually understands what you mean when you say you are tired because you’re not tired. You are in a different dimension completely from everybody else. How can I describe, you feel fatigue, but it’s to a point where there is nothing else. I used to live in this bubble of fatigue that whether I had it an hour, 2 hours, 24 hours, it made absolutely no difference whatsoever. The sleep, yes, it wasn’t even sleep. I would put my head on the pillow, and I would pass out. There was no nice warm, fuzzy feeling of, I remember all those years ago, oh, I’m going to fall asleep; this is really nice.
08:33
Moira
I feel nice and cozy. It wasn’t that I just trashed out, and I didn’t know when I’d see anybody again. It was horrific.
08:44
Dylan Petkus, MD
When it’s horrific like that’s something where I think a lot of people can relate of where you’re kind of like you said, in this bubble of it’s not really tired. That’s just the closest word that can describe it of where getting off the couch, like, David could hold a $100 bill in front of you, and you probably wouldn’t even be like, let’s go get Scottish.
09:05
Moira
I might have.
09:08
David
No, it’s got to be a $5 bill.
09:11
Dylan Petkus, MD
$5 bill. And so it’s just like your body really shuts down in a way that other people can’t imagine. And that’s when even just when someone’s like, hey, Moira, are you going to do this? It’s just like that impossibility other people can’t recognize. You’re just like, why would you even ask that? Or when you’re even planning things with other people thinking, okay, they want to do something on Friday at seven, and you’re just like, well, how am I going to be at that time, what’s going to be possible? And that’s one of the toughest things.
09:45
Dylan Petkus, MD
And even for David, just kind of like, the theme here is really, yes, Moira was going through a lot, but also as a dynamic duo here, how were you able to cope with that stress in terms of being able to take care of her and taking care of the other things around the house and also working a full-time job here?
10:08
David
Well, there could be no planning about anything, whether it be in the household or not in the household. Can we plan meals? No, it’s just done as it’s done. Can we plan on walking the dog? We plan on taking Granny out or seeing to our son? No. Can we plan on seeing friends a week down the line? No. Everything is just in the moment. And anything that would be planned would be more likely canceled than anything else. Occasionally, but lots of cancellations. And so you lived moment to moment and never quite knew what was happening next. And usually what was happening next was nothing other than getting through the housework or getting through the food, or getting through the necessities.
11:11
Dylan Petkus, MD
That moment-to-moment thing. And that’s just where people will, they’ll just be on this hamster wheel if you will, where it’s just like, I got to get through the next moment, the next moment. But not being able to really be able to plan out things like, hey, Friday, we’re going to go for a walk. Even something as simple as that is just off the table. And I think one thing that’s always really unique in people’s healing journeys here is, yes, there’s all these factors going on that a lot of people can relate to. But for you guys, if you were to pick one big reason that you were like, this has to change, and it has to change now. What would you say that was for you?
11:49
Moira
I had nowhere else to go. I was at the end. There was nowhere else to go. I didn’t know what else to do. I had no life. I didn’t feel I could. I mean, I have responsible, we all, as adults, have responsibilities. I felt I couldn’t live up to any of my responsibilities. I have a gorgeous son who’s a really great kid, thank goodness, and very understanding, but, I mean, this has been most of his life. So when you popped up, I thought, well, let’s do it. Let’s do it. Because without this, it was final straw time, I think. Really?
12:47
Dylan Petkus, MD
Yeah, for sure. And when you’re in that sort of final straw phase, obviously, there was other straws along the way here on this camel. And this is a very contorted analogy already, but you already mentioned the usual going to your primary care doctor, and they look at you, and they’re like, oh, well, these three labs look normal. There’s nothing I can do and say, have you tried drinking more water? Have you tried doing yoga? Have you tried, what’s some other stuff they’ll say in sort of the other things that you’ve done? What are some more things like more primary care doctors, some alternative doctors, all the supplements, functional. What are some of the things that you’ve done that kind of just fell flat on their face?
13:37
Moira
Well, I tried massage. I like that kind of stuff anyway. But I tried massage. Reflexology, I drove myself when I probably shouldn’t have been driving out to a lady in the country who had, I can’t even remember the type of therapy it was caused, who did things with a wand and gave me supplements. What else I done? Oh, I went on a gluten-free diet. And for six weeks, that was many years ago, when I was a bit younger, too. That was great. For six weeks, I was bouncing off the walls, and then surprise, I crashed. I have thought, well, to hell with this. I have done half marathons, believe it or not, for charity. I thought, I’m going to do this, I want to do this, I will do this. And I’ve ended up in bed for what, one month, two months afterward?
14:39
Moira
I’ll push through. I’ll just push through. So I gave up with the medics, actually, I gave up. I bought books, which, because I was so tired, I couldn’t read, so I had to get him to read them. And some were so convoluted that he couldn’t really grasp them either. I could read a paragraph at a time. So, yes, those were just some of the fun things I tried. And often I think I was so tired. You can’t try anything because you can’t think, and because you can’t think, you can’t decide, you can’t make decisions, you can’t think. You’re in a fog, so you’re just praying for a magic wand or something to come out of the blue, really. It was that bad.
15:37
Dylan Petkus, MD
And that is, unfortunately, the journey so many people go through where it’s just like, you name the thing, and it ends in -ology, and they’ve done, you know, all of these things which even, like you, the. It sounds like you saw Hermione Granger, someone waving their wand. But a lot of those mean, and this is just from my perspective, I’m sure a lot of people can resonate with it. It seems like they’re treating some symptom or something, or it doesn’t really seem connected to anything. It just seems like another thing to try. And that’s what so many people do where it’s like, oh, let’s try Ashwagandha, let’s try Rodeola, let’s try a lot of vitamin C. It’s all these things, this big checklist that a lot of people go down and that’s when it takes…
16:22
Dylan Petkus, MD
How long would you say that process was like, how many years and how many whatever currency do you guys use lamb wool as currency over there?
16:35
Moira
I wouldn’t even like to count that, but I am actually. It’s absolutely terrible this has been ten years or even twelve.
16:48
David
Over a decade.
16:49
Moira
And that is no exaggeration. There have been periods when it’s been better for some reason, and there have been times when it has been, as I’d say, horrific, for whatever reason. And we do try to do nice things. And I do have friends. I have lost friends. I have friends who simply didn’t understand. I had a great friend who said, look, all you’ve got to do is get in the car, and I will take you somewhere. I said, “I can’t get in the car.” And unfortunately, her teenage daughter was diagnosed with my CFS, and it was only then that she said, I understand now, but I didn’t get it before. That is the story so far.
17:40
Dylan Petkus, MD
And that’s what people go through where it’s just a decade long process. And a lot of people don’t always, how you say, have the vision to see, okay, it’s been a year. I’ve already tried this and that. Well, let’s keep doing this. It’s just like if things keep failing, one year, two years, three years, and you’re not really fundamentally shifting how you’re approaching this, people are kind of like, if you were to have a wall here and just kind of bang your head against it, that’s kind of going off. And that kind of brings us to what you were talking about earlier, where you’re like, okay, I saw this thing, this looks different. And so how did you find it? I guess we’re really only on Facebook now. Was it the masterclass and the group? Where did you stumble into us?
18:33
Moira
I must have been scrolling through Facebook, and for some reason, miraculous reason, someone had your, the conquer fatigue thing popped up, and, OK, here’s the thing about fatigue. I will click on this and I will see what they’re saying. And that was it, really. And I must have listened to some of your pop-ups. This sounds interesting. This guy sounds like he might know what he’s talking about. Forgive me, but yeah, why not? So I said to David, look, I’ve seen this guy, and of course, okay, they’re in the States, big question mark.
19:25
Dylan Petkus, MD
Oh, those Americans.
19:27
Moira
I know those Americans.
19:28
Dylan Petkus, MD
Those Yankees.
19:29
Moira
But then, on the other hand, because we are British and because doctors have this magical aura about them in this country anyway, and because we don’t question things perhaps the same way. And I haven’t been getting anywhere. Obviously, I thought, right, I will talk to my other half, lord of the manor, and see what he says. And so I called, and I got Barb on the phone first, and obviously it’s difficult with the distance, and you don’t know who these people are, and there are so many scams and all the rest of it. But I called and I think I maybe spoke to Barb twice. And then I actually spoke to you. I got through to Dylan himself and had a chat. And not. Why not? We’ve done so many other things. I’m at the end of myself, I need to do something.
20:28
Moira
And this might just be the thing. This just is the thing.
20:34
Dylan Petkus, MD
Yeah. And this is really cool here because also the honesty. I appreciate it. No, I like it. Because I look at that masterclass, I’m like that picture of me, I look really tan, my hair is weird. I don’t wear a suit and tie, ever. Why would I put that in there? When you saw that in some of the other, the pop up videos, the lives, some of the articles, what were those initial thoughts? Were you skeptical? Like, what the heck is this? Is this another wand waiver? Do you feel it was different? There’s no right or wrong answer.
21:13
Moira
In all honesty, I thought this is someone who actually wants to help, who sounds like we can help, who has a vast amount of knowledge, who has been through this himself and has no heirs and graces, as we say. He just is as he is.
21:35
David
It’s a normal person.
21:36
Moira
Yes.
21:38
Dylan Petkus, MD
That’s the biggest compliment you could give me being normal.
21:43
Moira
As far as we are aware, this is a good guy. And if you can help, I am going to grab this with both hands. I’m going to go for it. And I am really over the moon that I did, that we did, because it has changed things. I mean, what it said on the tin is what you get, really. And I am more than happy to. Happy to say that there’s absolutely nothing in it for me. I am up today. I am showered, I am dressed, I am alive, I am functioning. I am speaking, perhaps rubbish. I don’t know. I do not have brain fog. I mean, this is huge. Absolutely huge. I can interact with my family.
22:37
Moira
We are in lockdown in the UK, which means that basically, we can’t do anything, which at the moment is a bonus, actually, in many ways, because I’m not canceling anything, I’m not disappointing anybody. And I am using this time to restore myself, if you like, to reconnect with the three other people in the house and, yeah, try to get on a better footing for when hopefully we come out of this dreadful period of time. So, yeah, it’s good.
23:13
Dylan Petkus, MD
Absolutely. And the one thing I really want to highlight there is that as were talking about you guys trying things, decades, I mean, twelve years, a long time. Trying things, trying things. And still being the person who is scrolling through Facebook and you see this ad or a post or a video or something, you’re like, let’s look into it. Because a lot of people will be like, I’ve already tried everything. And then also when you do something, it wasn’t you. Because I believe I even asked you on our call, you were like, I’ll try it. And I was like, oh, no, you got to do it. You got to reach both hands out and do this thing. You were like, okay, yeah, we can do that. Let’s do it. Because there’s the ability to keep going through this journey. Keep going, keep going.
24:06
Dylan Petkus, MD
Because, yes, you may have failures for a decade, but the biggest failure is that you’re afraid of more failure and will stay stuck in the exact same spot forever. But you were still having that courage and that bravery to be like this guy. He’s a Yankee. He’s a little bit too tan. I don’t know. He makes these really bad jokes. But you know what? I am defiantly committed to fixing this. And in doing so, you are where you are today. Where there’s no brain fog. You’ve showered. And even for me, I’m like, did I shower today? I was like, yeah, I did. So I called you on that as well. You have a whole 5 hours ahead of me. So great there.
24:43
Dylan Petkus, MD
And being more in terms of where you were before because some of the biggest things were just that lack of consistency in your sleep cycle, really. Just living so many hours on the couch, not able to really even do the basics. How would you describe the day to day or weekly basis? What does that look like for you now that you’ve been able to fix these issues?
25:07
Moira
I do have some off days, I will admit because it’s a long-term thing, and you build on it. And I think the thing is, you don’t beat yourself up about any little glitches because even normal people have glitches. So I can get up, and I’m not thinking about what I can or can’t do anymore. I’m thinking about what I will do. In fact, I’m not thinking about it. I am doing it. So a few weeks ago, well before I started this, I would be perhaps lying in the bath thinking, okay, I’m in the bath now. What can I do next? What should I do next? If I do X, will I be able to do Y, etcetera? On and on and on. I don’t do that anymore. I get on with life, basically.
26:02
Moira
I may have a sleepless night now and again, but I’m not in pain with it. I’m not anxious about it. I’m not wandering about the house so much in despair. I’m quite calm about it. Okay. I haven’t slept. No big deal. In fact, I think that happened yesterday. I got my stuff on. I took the dog out for a walk. Great. Felt great. So no big panic, just, okay, let’s just work with this. This is what we’ve got. Let’s work with it. Lovely walk with the dog. Couldn’t have been better. Got on with my day. As simple as, and I think as well, the thing about this conquer fatigue, this program is that it is personalized. You have your call with yourself.
26:53
Moira
You have someone who listens to you, who will not poo what you’re saying you can say what you need to say safely. Someone will listen, someone will. They take heed of what you’re saying and they will find out perhaps why you will be directed as to what to do about it. You feel safe. I think one of the huge things is you feel supported. You have your meeting on a Saturday, which is very social. It’s really nice. We’ve met people from all over who will post things during the week on Facebook. I put a toe over the bed today. Yippee. Hurray. Everybody encourages, but it’s really important because when you get the second toe over the bed. Fabulous. And you will be congratulated again. You are not alone. You don’t have to suffer alone.
27:56
Moira
You can be part of a very supportive group who will celebrate every teeny step of the way. And that in itself makes you feel so much better and makes you feel valued again and makes you remember who you still are. Because a lot of us, I think, will be thinking, oh, my goodness me, I used to be. I was. I could. The thing is, you still are. You can. And I really believe now you will. Because I’m going to start on lists of things that I am going to do. Don’t know when, but I am going to do them. And, boy, when I can do them, I’m really going to do them.
28:46
Moira
And I think as well, actually talking like this today makes me realize, too, what an emotional journey it’s actually been and what it must be for a lot of people who perhaps are much younger than myself because it must be devastating if you’re young and you’re going to study, you might be wanting to move away from home for the first time. I mean, I am lucky in the sense that I’ve done all that, and I am now what’s considered a middle-aged woman. That doesn’t mean to say I don’t have hopes and dreams, but I am at a different stage of life from the youngsters. So this debilitating condition is difficult to deal with at all different stages of life.
29:38
Moira
So you want to break through it and get your life back and who you are even in a better version of yourself afterward, I would say absolutely.
29:54
Dylan Petkus, MD
And I love so many of those things you said in there where when we’re listening, because, yes, there’s the cool sort of foundations of shifting things and what you need to do, but so much of this is personalized because you can have the plan laid out in front of you. But the other thing is, there’s an old saying by this old doctor who I should know the name of because he’s a famous doctor. I think it’s Osler. But anyway, the quote is, if you just listen to your patients, they provide their own diagnosis. That’s the quote by him. It’s not just, oh, I’m listening. I’m like, oh, you’re deficient in vitamin B two. No, it’s not always that simple. Because there are so many mental roadblocks, there’s so many, understanding of what the biggest factors for you are going to be.
30:42
Dylan Petkus, MD
Because the reason we’re able to do what we’re able to do without the conventional methods, without lab work, without all the restrictive dieting, is really understanding what the big things for you are and how you can address them in a stepwise fashion that allows you to see that progress. And then the other cool thing is now you have these principles of how to be healthy, how to have energy, how to sleep well. And then it’s just like, okay, this is just how I live. It’s easy. I don’t need to do a 14-day celery juice cleanse. I can instead be able to get your Ferrari cup, fill it up with some tea, and just go on your way here.
31:19
Moira
I thought I’d be good and have some water.
31:21
Dylan Petkus, MD
Oh, yes, you’re doing much better. I’m in a coffee shop. I have to support local business. There we then. You know, David, from your perspective, what are some of the biggest shifts you’ve seen in Moira?
31:37
David
Well, I come home, and she’s up and about, so that’s good. The house isn’t in darkness. I’m not going up to the bedroom and trying to get some info about anything from the heap under the blankets, the dogs getting walked, and grandma’s being looked after and putting on pleasant mostly.
32:09
David
And the friend is back and the wife is back to a degree.
32:15
Moira
There’s always going to be a quibble about that one.
32:18
Dylan Petkus, MD
There’s always a quibble. Life is left.
32:22
David
She’s got much more energy about her. There’s much more unexpected things happening. I came back from work one day and there was a new car in the driveway that was a bit unexpected. So she’d gone to a garage and traded in her old car and got a new one.
32:44
Dylan Petkus, MD
Interesting.
32:45
David
So there’s enough energy going on for her to do that sort of thing.
32:50
Dylan Petkus, MD
Yeah.
32:51
David
And misbehave herself in general.
32:53
Dylan Petkus, MD
That’s good. More quibbles means more. And so, to wrap things up here. I mean, being able to see Moira as this person who, like we said, was just not living life to really any degree that she knew was possible because, like many people able to really motor things, run a half marathon, all these things, there comes a point of where your physiology just can’t take it, and then that’s where you go through all of those things. It’s like, okay, this supplement, that doctor, this wand waiver, etcetera. And then there comes a point where you’re like, this looks different. I realize what I want in my life. It’s not where I am right now, and it’s where I want to go. I’m not going to try this thing. I’m going to go ahead and do it.
33:43
Dylan Petkus, MD
And it’s not necessarily going all in on the little steps along the way. It’s going all-in on that decision to change where you are. We’re just like, effort. We’re doing this. We’re going to finally overcome this. And if this is part of it, awesome. If it’s not awesome, because I’m going to keep going. But the reason you’ve been able to have those results is you’ve been that dynamic person who is keeping up with all the things, integrating them as best as you can. And this is something you’ll have more and more and more benefit from, where maybe you are running half marathons again or fixing that hole in the roof that we talked about a few weeks ago, but that is going to allow you to get to such a high level.
34:24
Dylan Petkus, MD
And the reason this all started is because, just like I was saying, where Mora just kept going, and when you’re able to do that’s when you’re able to have that change. And one of the places that it starts is with being able to talk to someone who can listen to you, like me and my team did, and really be able to understand these issues. And really, are you going to be someone who can make this journey? And what are all the steps in place that you need to take in order to do so? And then once you’re there and you’ve made that decision, that’s when you have that support all the way.
34:55
Dylan Petkus, MD
Where you’re in the Facebook group with us, you’re getting emails, you’re joining our comedy Q and A sessions every Saturday and being able to see those results, better sleep, better function, and getting back to so many things you’re doing, and be able to know in this new year, being able to actually plan things, plan vacations, plan what you’re going to do on the weekend. And it’s just so exciting. And so, if you want to know, get to where Moira has gotten. It all starts where she and David have started, and that’s with getting on a call with myself. Forward slash talk. Type that into your browser, and then just go from there. I know the word circadian isn’t very common, so look at it a little bit longer there, but just type that in. You’ll pick a time, and then there’s a little form.
35:40
Dylan Petkus, MD
Do that, and then we’ll take it from there, and maybe you’ll be the next person who’s chatting with me here and sharing some laughs. All right, so it’s been absolutely awesome to talk to you guys. Thank you both for being here. I always love the dynamic duo that you guys are. And like I said, I guess I’ll see you guys in, like, 45 minutes at the Q and A. See you there. And thank you so much for sharing your story and any closing remarks or any other wisdom you want to impart on us.
36:14
David
Is there anything in your methods that can help with minimal hair loss?
36:19
Dylan Petkus, MD
We’re working on it.
36:21
David
I’ll just have to pray at the moment, then.
36:23
Dylan Petkus, MD
That’ll be optimalcircadianhealth.com forward slash hair.
36:26
David
But that’s what we’re working on.
36:29
Moira
Just do it.
36:31
Dylan Petkus, MD
Just do the. That’s the slogan there. All right, guys, I hope you all have a wonderful weekend. Moira and David, see you very soon. And signing off. And goodbye, everyone.