Dr. Dylan Petkus reviews how Wendy gets back to feeling like herself again after she had been feeling tired all the time and crashed on the couch.
00:00
Wendy
Seen this stream thing before.
00:02
Dylan Petkus, MD
All right, we are live. Hey, everyone, it’s me, Dr. Dylan Petkus, here. And we are here with the wonderful Wendy. And as you can see, I’m very talented at alliterations, even though it’s only two in a row. Does it need to be three in a row to be an alliteration?
00:16
Wendy
I would say so. Normally.
00:18
Dylan Petkus, MD
Yeah, normally. I don’t know. There may be differences in alliteration rules in the UK versus the United States. And if you’re someone who doesn’t like really cheeky humor, I would just stop watching. Now, regardless of your level of fatigue, there’s going to be almost as much as that as we’re going to talk about really, where Wendy was, where she’s gone, and know, really about her journey. And so, Wendy, do you want to tell us a little bit or a lot of it, depending on how you want to go here in terms of where you were, I guess that would be 8, 9, 10 weeks ago. And even, like, a little bit of your background in terms of just like, your health journey.
01:01
Wendy
Well, I was really super fit, so I like to say myself anyway, because I was in the military and I’d been in the police before, doing early lates and nights. So I was used to shift work, pushing myself to the extreme. And then I all of a sudden got sick with pericarditis. And then the fatigue followed, and it was four and a half years ago and it just completely and utterly changed my life for the worse. And I couldn’t stay awake for the whole day at first. I couldn’t get through the night’s sleeping party. It’s just literally everything is hard and you don’t realize what you have to account for your energy levels. You don’t think getting up makes you tired. You don’t think having a shower is going to make you tired or having breakfast.
01:51
Wendy
And all these things, they all add up all your spoons and you run out of spoons pretty quickly. And, yeah, all the medication that I was on and some of it that I’m still on, it just completely and utterly felt like it ruined my whole.
02:11
Dylan Petkus, MD
Yeah, yeah. And that’s like, incredibly just a testimony to you in terms of where you’ve been, because it was like when we first started talking or when you actually met up with Barb, a member of our team. And I was even just looking at your original application there. You’re very brief. You’re, like, very tired. Ruining my whole life. And just when we first met, it was very clear you were someone who was like, what did we say one time? The Laura Croft of someone who’s very high charging, very fit, very active in your career. I think.
02:59
Dylan Petkus, MD
I remember hearing you used to go for runs with 25 kilos on your back and all these things, and really, that’s where so many people, that’s how they really come in, and that’s also a big part of the reason why these things happen and how you end up with fatigue. And one thing that is just now hitting my mind, I forgot to mention very early on, a little bit more introduction about Wendy. Wendy is one of our graduates who has worked with us the last eight, nine weeks, and we’ve been helping her out, and she’s been helping us out understand a lot more about the UK, how they say certain things like they really play it by their nose, all these really learning a lot of cultural distinctions here. So I just wanted to give that quick introduction.
03:46
Dylan Petkus, MD
I think I forgot to do that. But really, back to where Wendy was, where you just had this sudden, just like you thought you’re healthy and then it’s way down, and then you go to all these doctors who say many things, including that you’re a pleasant, interesting person. Can you tell us more about your pleasantries and interesting aspects there?
04:11
Wendy
And that letter that said, thank you for this interesting referral, I was so incensed at that. It’s like, this is my life you’re talking about. I’m in the process of losing my job and this is interesting for you. So the doctor in London that was.
04:30
Dylan Petkus, MD
Yeah. And it’s really crazy because people like you, when they come to a conventional doctor, not necessarily pointing at myself, maybe there’s one behind me, but when people say, like, oh, I’m tired, I have this thing, that thing, like all these strange things, there is such a high level of skepticism on the professional side of, like, either this person has nothing wrong with them, which obviously isn’t the case, because a lot of times people will confuse what they saw one PowerPoint slide in medical school or on a papyrus tablet, depending on how old your doctor is, versus someone’s everyday reality, where, like you said, you now can’t work, how is everything? Fine. How are things?
05:22
Dylan Petkus, MD
Interesting if you’re at a position where you literally can’t do the thing that’s going to pay your rent, keep food on the table, keep the cat fed, all these really important things here, and not to make light of it anyway, but it’s really such, really a disservice of when you see all the doctors and then you’re really left to try things by yourself, and that’s where things can go either way. Some things can work, some things cannot work. And at the same time, when you’re doing these things, it’s kind of like when you think about the doctor because you still see a doctor for some of the pericarditis aspects, but there’s just that thought in your head there. It’s like, what if they can’t help me? What if there is something wrong, but they can’t do anything about it? Right?
06:16
Dylan Petkus, MD
And so what was that like? Sort of the more psychological component as you were trying to fix this out yourself?
06:26
Wendy
Oh, it’s horrible because I would constantly say to the doctor, yeah, my CRP is low, fine, because I’m on this medication, but you’re keeping me well enough to be not admitted to hospital, but too ill for life. So I’m in this limbo where you’re not in the hospital, but you’re going there every other week. But then your whole life is focused around being a professional patient, and that’s just awful. And the fact that I’d repeatedly say to them, sorry, this is rookie 101, isn’t it? Like video call. Turn your phone off.
07:09
Dylan Petkus, MD
You want to text all your friends before you start, hey, call me.
07:15
Wendy
Yeah, sorry, I completely forgot. But, yeah, it’s just that I felt like they didn’t care. All he cared about was that my CRP was low and my pericardium was not inflamed right now, and I had no pleural effusions. That’s literally. I don’t care. Do you need anything else I could say, well, what are you doing for work or what’s happening? I said, yeah, I’m in the process of losing my job. I’m having a medical board. I’m going to be out of work in six months. Okay. Anyway, so I’ll see you again in another four months, right? Keep sending me your bloods. And being stuck in that limbo was the worst feeling. And not knowing how to get out of it as well. I honestly feel like I’ve tried so many different things beforehand.
08:08
Dylan Petkus, MD
Yeah. And that’s where it’s just, like, what other options do you have left at that? Just accept that. Okay, well, I’ll keep sending in my bloods, which is UK, for lab work, everyone. And we’ll see what know. We’ll try this. We’ll try this drug, that drug, all these steroids, all these things, and we’ll see what happens. But at the same time, how can you be living a life where a professional is saying, let’s see what happens over the next few years, or when they think, really not too much is going wrong here, and then they do a chest x-ray. Well, I guess you can tell what they missed eventually. Found.
09:11
Wendy
Oh, yeah, you broke up. Were you talking about the time where he said, I didn’t have a plural effusion? And I did. Yeah. And I went to the hospital, and I was in the A&E. The ER.
09:23
Dylan Petkus, MD
Thank you.
09:25
Wendy
And, yeah, I said, I think I’ve got a plural effusion. I can kind of feel it because I was so used to the pain because I’ve had so many plural effusions. And he’s like, no, listen to my chest 99 or whatever it is. They do all that tapping. No, you don’t. I said, I’m pretty sure, and I don’t. Normally, I’d never argue with a doctor. Yeah. And I said, I’m really sure I do. Can I just have a chest x-ray, please? Okay, off you go. It turned out I had a bilateral pleural effusion.
09:57
Dylan Petkus, MD
Yeah.
09:58
Wendy
Not a massive one, just the bottom of my lungs was rounded off.
10:02
Dylan Petkus, MD
But plural effusion is probably too big.
10:05
Wendy
Oh, okay, well, that’s how they tell me. They’re like, oh, it’s only little. You’ll be fine.
10:10
Dylan Petkus, MD
It’s like saying it’s a small cockroach. Any cockroach.
10:14
Wendy
Yeah.
10:15
Dylan Petkus, MD
This is just like another example of when you kind of get more into this box of, oh, my gosh, this person is sick. And everyone’s like, oh, that’s very interesting. Maybe there’s really nothing going on. And then you can miss something huge like that, which happens a lot where people kind of miss diagnoses and things like that. And it’s not to knock any profession, it’s just like, kind of what unfortunately happens just based on a lot of the cognitive dissonance inside that profession. So, moving beyond that, in terms of the things you tried yourself, what were they? And just sort of tell us, what were the things you tried that were absolutely rubbish. Yeah, I know. Good. Some of the things you saw, like a little bit of improvement, but not really what you needed.
11:07
Wendy
Gosh, I don’t even remember what I would have tried first. But I like rules. I like a very regimented life because of the career that I’ve had. And so I decided I’m going to get up at a certain time every day because I know that’s worked for me in the past. It’s going to work now, surely. I just couldn’t stick to trying. I tried headspace, the app, but I couldn’t stick to it because I didn’t really. No disrespect to Andy, head space person, but I just didn’t really connect with that app. I tried juicing, and juicing is something I actually really liked, but it didn’t last for long enough. I came back from a juice retreat feeling really good, but that was before I had fibromyalgia. That was when it was just pericarditis and fatigue.
12:02
Wendy
But when I went a second time, once I had fibromyalgia, it was like. It was such a shock to my system. I felt dreadful. And they said, oh, you’re just having a bad detox. And it would help with my cravings as well for a while. But then you spend a lot of money on juicing because it’s not cheap. And I’d be too tired to juice because I can’t cut all the vegetables up because my hands hurt a lot, or standing as well to cut it all up. So it wasn’t sustainable for me. I’ve spent a lot of money on acupuncture. I’ve had six weeks of residential rehab with the military doing graded exercise therapy, which, yeah, I liked at the time because obviously I like exercise, but literally, everything is being done for you around that place.
12:59
Wendy
You don’t have to cook, or clean; you literally just have to get yourself up and get yourself to the graded exercise therapy. So it’s a completely false environment and you can’t replicate those things at home. So again, that’s not sustainable for me. What else? Yeah. Did I say acupuncture? Didn’t I?
13:19
Dylan Petkus, MD
Yeah.
13:22
Wendy
Oh, massage. What’s the. Oh, reflexology. That’s it. Yeah. There’s probably loads more things that I’ve tried as well. Lavender pillow mist and lots of prescribed medications to help me sleep. And I had a lidocaine infusion as well. For the pain. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. I’ve never felt so high in my life.
13:53
Dylan Petkus, MD
Really? Not everyone feels that, and I’m sure people are really. There’s a burning question. How nice are the blenders on a juicing retreat?
14:05
Wendy
I don’t know. They do it all for you.
14:08
Dylan Petkus, MD
Oh, it’s behind the scenes.
14:09
Wendy
Yeah. You just get presented with a glass of juice. That’s it. I bought a very good one, but not from there. You don’t have to lift a finger. So again, that’s another false environment because you’re not having to do the preparation. So that’s what tires me out and the cleaning up and that sort of thing, that doesn’t really help. But, yeah, I’ve tried so much.
14:38
Dylan Petkus, MD
And so a lot of what you were talking about there in terms of when you have your problems, you have the fibromyalgia, the pericarditis, which some fancy words for you, were in a lot of pain, not, and not able to really have really any physical stamina. And another thing, we didn’t really talk about too much of the brain fog. That’s almost always a factor on a daily people. And the first thing you’re trying to do by yourself is you go the diet route, whether it’s the juicing or many other things. What are some of the diets you’ve gone through?
15:21
Wendy
So I was vegan for three months and then vegetarian for a bit longer, and then I was a flexigan because I couldn’t keep it up because that’s my word for it. So when I am at home, I’m vegan. When I go out, if I’m paying for it, then if I can’t find something vegan I like, then I’ll buy something I want to eat.
15:44
Dylan Petkus, MD
Okay.
15:46
Wendy
It’s hard because I do care about the animals, but I cared about being really tired as well.
15:54
Dylan Petkus, MD
On that note, this is something so common where we’ve had people that we speak to, and we’re like, okay, so are you someone who’s going to take the recommendations that we give you? And they’re like, oh, yeah, absolutely not. I’m a vegan through and through vegetarian, but they’ve had fatigue for like 20 years. And you have to be someone who’s willing to be like, okay, maybe I should change that up. Not to say that diet is everything, but kind of hold on to things like that. But when you’re someone who’s like, okay, yes, I can love the animals. I can also make some dietary strategies for myself, but we’ll just leave that at that. So we’re doing the sort of the vegans, vegetarians, the juicing, the flexitarianism, and also a lot of other modalities.
16:50
Dylan Petkus, MD
So you did acupuncture and had a bunch of needles all over the place. And how helpful was that?
17:02
Wendy
I spent a lot of money on acupuncture. And, yeah, so it helped. I don’t even know. I felt like at least it was a step in the right direction, maybe. But the lasting benefit to it’s been more than a year since my last session. I just got one of those 20-pound mats instead. The acupressure mats, because I was like, I can’t afford this, so I’ll just lie on this. And that’s just as helpful as the acupuncture puncture. For me, anyway. I had a traditional chinese doctor doing my acupuncture, so I did really trust her. But I just think the lasting effect, for me anyway, it wasn’t really there.
17:48
Dylan Petkus, MD
Yeah. And so the reason that’s really interesting, and many people may not know this, essentially, acupuncture, the way it works is you have meridians, and then essentially, when you put a needle. The meridians are blocked like this. They should be like this, but there’s a little gap, and they allow currents to flow, they allow electrons and stuff. But when you have fibromyalgia, pain, all this stuff, or if you just have poor flow of energy through your body to keep it as simple as possible, when you put a needle in between, that allows for the flow. Because metal conducts electricity, right? So that allows it to go. But the thing is, you can plug something into an outlet, but if you don’t flip the switch, if you don’t have electricity going through, it doesn’t matter. And so that’s why I was curious.
18:40
Dylan Petkus, MD
That’s another really common experience people have, is they go to the acupuncturist. Not really the same results. And even I know an acupuncturist, and he says, unfortunately, there’s a certain threshold when people are pretty sick; they just don’t respond to therapy as much. That’s just a cool thing there. So you went through the acupuncturist the conventional way. Where were you? In alternative lands beyond that?
19:12
Wendy
What, like stones and crystals and that sort of thing? I remember what I had done. I had my hair tested because someone said, you should try that. So I did. I went to this one lady. I can’t remember what she did. Now. This is a long time ago. It’s been four and a half years. She recommended lots of weird and wonderful things to me, some of which I tried. And then I thought, oh, gosh, this is a bit expensive. I don’t really know what this is all about. So, yeah, I can’t remember. I don’t even remember what she did. Electrical things. Like, I had to hold something. You hold these things, and it tells you not what the body fat read is, but it’s a little bit like that.
20:07
Dylan Petkus, MD
Did you go to a mechanic or a therapist?
20:13
Wendy
Yeah, I can’t quite remember.
20:15
Dylan Petkus, MD
So some things may be half nebulous, maybe not, half not, but some alternative things. And then the other big thing is, how many supplements did you go through by yourself trying to figure it out and come up with the best recipe for you?
20:30
Wendy
Oh, yeah, I’ve been trying lots. I had ginger root and vitamin D and B12, I think, and then lots of other licorice root. I don’t know why I had that multivitamins that they had little vitamin gummy things. I’d try those. Yeah, lots of little things because I had them all tested by the doctor, and I think I had iron tablets for a while as well, but I didn’t like taking those because they made me feel really sick. But, yeah, lots of things. Because they say basically nothing’s wrong with your blood work. I know lots of people with fibromyalgia have a B12 injection, but he said, no, yours is fine. Can’t think why you’re so tired.
21:22
Dylan Petkus, MD
This brings up a very obvious, not so obvious, at the time when you’re doing it. Is that your health? Like when you kind of have this approach, it’s kind of like when you’re driving a car, you see something empty and you go fill it up and like, okay, it should work again.
21:38
Wendy
But if it was.
21:42
Dylan Petkus, MD
We wouldn’t be talking, I wouldn’t be doing what I’m doing. And really, nobody would have any issue because you would just take a pill. I’m like, okay, I got my B12 injection. Off to the races. But that’s just not how it is. And it’s not so much the supplements or something. It’s not just a small fix to this. It’s not like a recipe where you make cookies, and you’re like, oh, why do these taste like crap? And you’re like, oh, I forgot to add the eggs. And that’s when you start to understand, like, yes, there’s maybe a part of it, but it’s not the only thing. Is there a massive tsunami coming through?
22:24
Wendy
Yeah. Can you tell? Because my hair keeps flowing. Right, because it’s so windy. But I like having the window open. Yeah, it’s like I’ve got a little.
22:34
Dylan Petkus, MD
Like a fashion magazine.
22:36
Wendy
Yeah, photo shoot. But it’s just so much nicer with the fresh air. So, yeah, I’m happy to leave it. As long as it doesn’t start raining, it’s okay.
22:46
Dylan Petkus, MD
Yeah, awesome. You’ve tried all the things over, like, four and a half years. And then you found us, and you first saw our masterclass. Right.
23:04
Wendy
Sorry, it broke up a bit.
23:07
Dylan Petkus, MD
Like, when was like, the first time you saw us? And you were like, what is this? Who are these?
23:12
Wendy
Oh, I think it was on Facebook ads. And then I just phoned up. I think I did some Googling or something. Got on your web page, and then I phoned up and booked myself in with Barb. Yeah, I missed the video.
23:34
Dylan Petkus, MD
You never saw the video?
23:35
Wendy
No. I want to go and see it now.
23:42
Dylan Petkus, MD
That’s so funny. So you skipped the video, which is good, because there’s just way too much to learn in there. It’s just, you just get. Now, I’m kidding. It’s just 45 minutes of cats, and you really missed out. It was.
23:58
Wendy
Oh, no, Ginger’s just left as well.
24:01
Dylan Petkus, MD
See, now we’re out of cats, so it’s funny. So you went through the website, and what was sort of going through your mind when you were looking over those things? You were like, maybe I’ll give this a shot. This looks different. These people seem insane. What was going through your mind? Like, oh, I don’t want to talk to a Yankee.
24:23
Wendy
Yes, because it’s a very different system, isn’t it? You’ve got over there. What was I thinking? I thought that I had never heard a doctor talk about fatigue. That sounded like he, actually. Not that I want to give you a compliment or anything, it’s very British not to want to give a compliment, but I’ve never heard a doctor talk about fatigue in the same way that you had on. I don’t know if I knew at the time, but I think you said that you had it yourself at some point. But, yeah, the doctors here. I remember saying to one of the doctors, I’m going to lose my job. I’m really worried. And he said, oh, come work for the NHS. But no, that’s not the answer I’m looking for. The answer is, please fix me so I can have my life back.
25:20
Wendy
But, yeah, hearing someone in the medical profession actually speak about fatigue, that understood it. That, for me, was one of the biggest selling points.
25:32
Dylan Petkus, MD
Yeah. And that’s like something when I speak with people, or I’m talking about this, people are like, oh, where’d you train? Did you study? What doctors do on a day-to-day basis is just like, nothing related to fatigue at all, if anything, on how to be very fatigued and just work themselves to a stump. But getting out of it is not something they’re particularly skilled at. And not to pass judgment. Just an observation. How many doctors would you say when you see them? You’re like, oh, there’s a bill of health. There is just someone who knows exactly how to be chipper. And in shape and very few. Now, that being said, if I have a bone that needs to be repaired or like an artery that explodes, yeah, I’m down for that. I’m down for a doctor. I don’t care.
26:28
Dylan Petkus, MD
The fatter, the better. That probably means he’s a better surgeon. But just like, being able to hook up with someone who knows what you’ve been through, because they can really appreciate a lot of the things you’re going through, where we’re like, hey, Wendy, when you wake up in the morning, I guess when you’re used to, do you feel this kind of like singing in your eyes and you just feel like you had a hangover even though you didn’t drink the night before, and then by 11:00 a.m. Those aren’t the questions your doctor is asking you and an appointment. How’s your sleep? You said it’s good. Good. Okay. Next thing, do you drink? No. Okay. You ever smoke? They go through this checklist of things that are supposed to kind of capture everyone, but really get.
27:20
Dylan Petkus, MD
They don’t really tailor those things to people with fatigue because when you understand when is your afternoon slub, where do you start to get, do you get heavy in your body? And it’s kind of funny, some of the people, when we speak to them and work with them, they’re like, it’s kind of weird. I kind of felt like you were in my living room asking me questions about my life, and it was kind of nice, but also kind of creepy, but also mainly helped me understand, like, you knew what was going on. So that was really a big fundamental part. And so when we started to talk about what was going on with you laying out your plan, what was running through your mind where, like, these people are. Wanker? Is that the term? I don’t know.
28:06
Wendy
Yes, it is.
28:09
Dylan Petkus, MD
Should I not be using that one?
28:10
Wendy
No. Well, you can.
28:17
Dylan Petkus, MD
Did I just refer to a body part?
28:20
Wendy
No, that’s an action or. Yeah, if you put -ing on the end, that would refer to an activity.
28:28
Dylan Petkus, MD
Okay.
28:30
Wendy
That you would do on your own, perhaps.
28:32
Dylan Petkus, MD
Perhaps. Okay. Moving beyond that, just trying to regain my composure here. So when you were trying these things and thinking they were a bit wonky, perhaps, or some rubbish, what were your initial thoughts, where you’re like, was this something you heard before and just haven’t done by yourself? You were like, this is just completely off the mark. Is this just going to be a bunch of placebo? What’s going on here? What was kind of running through your mind?
29:02
Wendy
Yeah, I did wonder about, will it have this placebo effect? Because I’m talking to positive people, so that’s going to rub off on me, and it’ll cheer me up. So I was really concerned that one of my preconceptions was because I thought you were going to make me change a massive thing about my living arrangements and make sure that I was in my house on my own instead of having my lodger. I thought that was going to be the thing that you might suggest that I have to do and upend my life, basically.
29:46
Wendy
And I think that’s what I was worried about was, would it just be too much change for me to actually handle, or would it be the same things I’ve already tried, but I kind of don’t think I was too worried about the same thing because I remember reading something about the information and what was that slide?
30:12
Dylan Petkus, MD
It’s information, knowledge, and wisdom.
30:17
Wendy
Yeah. So I can get all this information, but I don’t know what to do with it. But could I really get all that information myself? No, I couldn’t.
30:29
Dylan Petkus, MD
That’s such an important thing. The distinction there is that the things people know over here, the things that they think will work, where they’re like, oh, yeah, I’ve had fatigue for 20 years. I’m an expert on this. You can’t tell me anything I don’t know. So there’s that, and then there’s the things they actually do over here. There’s some overlap in the middle, and then there’s the things way over here, way above. I’ll get some more ceiling here, where the unknowns. And then not even doing the things they have never even heard about doing. And that’s such a big shift for everyone. We’re like, oh, yeah, just add this to your routine. Think about doing this; add this to your diet. And people are like, is that going to do it? We’re like, yeah, just go ahead, do it.
31:19
Dylan Petkus, MD
And so, when you were adding these things in, what were some of the most immediate results you remember having?
31:27
Wendy
Oh, it was the effect on my sleep. It was in the three and a half days of being into it, and I was having this amazing sleep. And that was just right at the beginning. So I was so astounded that for me and I didn’t know I missed this until I got it back. I’d forgotten what it felt like to be sleepy at the appropriate times of the day. And because I’m so used to just feeling tired the whole time, that genuine tiredness at the end of the day, and to go to bed feeling that. And then to have good quality sleep. That was just even. I think I said to Dr. Molly, actually, in one of the calls the other week, it’s having that resilience now from. So I woke up at half two this morning because I was just thinking about some stuff.
32:37
Wendy
And then I just thought, oh, it must be. I think I’m a bit confused still with the clocks going back. I don’t know, it’s just really upset at my body at the moment. But I feel much more resilient to these odd nights that I’ve had of bad sleep than I have ever done. Had this been before the program, I would have spent the whole day in bed, mooch around with Netflix, maybe gaming or. I’ve actually, I popped into the shops this morning, and I’ve been for a walk as well. And before, I wouldn’t have been able to do those things. So I think the immediate impact on my sleep and the high-quality sleep that I’ve had in the last two months has just been incredible because I stopped taking amitriptyline as well, and not relying on it because I tried to,
33:41
Wendy
Oh, that was the other thing. I tried. I tried to wean myself off amitriptyline. Probably shouldn’t have done that without speaking to my doctor. I don’t know, but I tried.
33:52
Dylan Petkus, MD
We need to start things on our own. That’s what they do in the UK.
33:55
Wendy
Yeah. We cut our own details because you can never get hold of the doctor. You want an appointment? Yeah. How about in four weeks’ time? I was so sick of taking this drug because it was making me feel like a zombie. But I needed it to sleep. And I did try not having it. And then I wasn’t sleeping till 04:00 a.m. Or sometimes 06:00 a.m. Because I just could not get off to sleep. And I tried everything. Getting up, doing something else until you feel tired, not looking at my phone. I tried all that sort of stuff before and I just could never not have this. Amitriptyline. Now I haven’t had it for two months because I almost immediately stopped taking it. Much to the doctor’s disappointment, I think I wasn’t meant to do that. Oh, no, it was a pharmacist, she said.
34:48
Wendy
Did you do that by yourself? Yeah, I just stopped taking it.
34:53
Dylan Petkus, MD
Just casually? Yeah, so casually. Many years of forest sleep and then casually two weeks of natural, good sleep.
35:03
Wendy
Yeah. Well, in the first three and a half days, I don’t know why the half day. Well, I don’t know what I was doing, but, yeah, I don’t know why. I remember that being three and a half. Yeah. I just couldn’t believe that I felt tired at the right time of the day.
35:21
Dylan Petkus, MD
Yeah. Awesome. And just being able to have that sleep. What did that mean for your exercise? Mental clarity, mood. How did your day change in that way?
35:35
Wendy
It just meant for me; one of the big things was for me when I look after my nieces and nephew, and in the summer holidays, they came round to me for a day and maybe have a sleepover as well. And I would spend two and a half days once they left. Like a zombie. I’d be on that sofa. I couldn’t move. I’d just pot around the house. I wouldn’t go for a walk. I wouldn’t do anything because I couldn’t. It was like my whole body just shut down because I fired. But now they can come around, and I just can do something normal the next day, like pop to the shops, go for a walk, or out for lunch.
36:17
Wendy
Study, which is what I’m really trying to do, so I can get myself back to having a purpose again and get myself back into work. Yeah. Freeing up that time. I wasted so much time on the sofa. Not that I think gaming is a waste of time, but that was what I would have to do because I actually couldn’t concentrate on doing anything else. I couldn’t concentrate on my coding course. I couldn’t concentrate on reading a book or a magazine. It was just literally, I’ll game or I will. If I can’t even do that, I’m just going to watch Netflix. Because that’s what the other thing is. When they kept changing all these drugs, these awful immune suppressants that I was on, they take three months to work, but then they get all the side effects.
37:12
Wendy
So I was having all these side effects, like vomiting and massive headaches that I’ve even ended up in hospital for. I was so photosensitive I couldn’t do anything. Yeah, it’s awful side effects that I have that have all sort of eased off. It’s good having that freedom.
37:38
Dylan Petkus, MD
Yeah. And that’s what it’s really all about here, because you can have good mitochondria, and good energy production, but it’s really about the freedom to do the things that you want to do in your life. Because health is just like a platform for whatever you want to do. If you want to code, if you want to do more graphic design, if you want to exercise more, you need your health in place to do that. You need the sleep you need to be able just to have the stamina to go through the day. You need to be able to have an immune system that isn’t going out of whack and causing everything else in your body to be inflamed and malfunctioning. But hey, at least your immune system is kind of where we want it to be. Not really, but that’s what it’s really all about.
38:26
Dylan Petkus, MD
And so what are some of the things, now that you’ve had this big exponential improvement in your healing journey, what are some of the things that you’re looking forward to doing now?
38:37
Wendy
Well, I would very much like to start running again because I just get too tired. So this week, I’ve actually been trialing out walking every day. Instead of having. I normally have a break every two days, I have one day off. So, yeah, I’m building that up. So then I want the next thing. I’d love to be able to go back to running and swimming. And people say, oh, why can’t you do those things? Anyway? It’s like, well, yeah, I can go into the pool because what’s the word I’m looking for? Not high impact, but it’s the fact of getting there and the tiredness afterward. So, yeah, I don’t know if the pool is open; maybe I should try that out. And going back to work would be a massive thing for me.
39:39
Wendy
I would just love to be able to do that because I miss that so much.
39:43
Dylan Petkus, MD
Yeah, and it’ll be awesome when you’re there because once your health is sorted out, it’s just a matter of things falling into place and being able to line the opportunity up. And now you have that resiliency where in five years when you’re already back in the workspace and people are burning themselves out because it happens, that’s how people end up here. You’ll be that person who can still keep going strong.
40:08
Wendy
which is, yeah, definitely. I’d love that again because I always felt that I was really resilient, and having pericarditis and also being misdiagnosed for such a long time really knocked it out of me, and becoming this professional patient, I just felt like all my resilience with my energy just drained out because it was so quick that my energy disappeared. It was like someone had literally pulled a plug out of me, and it just drained from my body overnight. After the day I fainted because of the myocarditis, I think it was. But, yeah, just to be able to get back to not normal, I like to think now. Yeah. Better than normal.
41:01
Dylan Petkus, MD
The new normal.
41:02
Wendy
Oh, yeah, new normal.
41:04
Dylan Petkus, MD
All those quotation marks, the great reset. Let’s not even get into that. What would you say to the Wendy, like ten weeks ago, before all of this, when you were first just thinking about just your health trajectory in general, or when you were scrolling through our website and just thinking about what your options were like looking for? What would you say to that, Wendy?
41:39
Wendy
Yeah, I don’t know. What would I say? Yeah, trust yourself. It’s okay. Because I always follow my head, not my heart. And when I read all the stuff on your website, I really felt like I was following my heart. I don’t know if it makes sense, but yeah, I’m really glad that I trusted myself. And, yeah, remind me. I’d say back, yeah, you really will make the right decision because it came at the right time for me because I just had an appointment with my doctor, and he was like, yes, you’re going to be on Anakinra for another six months at least. And I was like, oh, great. Injecting myself, yay. That really is rubbish. I have now, and having that belief that it will get better.
42:41
Dylan Petkus, MD
Yeah. And that’s the biggest thing, because there’s so many people who, not so much their fault, but the constant reminder of that they do give up when they’re that professional patient. And when that’s the space you’re in, it’s very hard to make those changes of where you recognize where you’re at because you start to say, like, okay, this is just what things are. Where I’ve tried this and that, there’s really not much more to go.
43:10
Dylan Petkus, MD
Let’s just stay here in this space because it may not feel great on a day-to-day basis, but it is the familiar zone in which I live, and I’ve already tried to break through it so many different times, but people start to feel almost like a rat in a maze where they just keep banging against this wall and that wall and they never get to the nice manchego cheese in the middle of the maze. And that’s really a big celebration of your resilience, your tenacity, and always like, okay, well, if it’s not the vegan diet, let’s do this thing, let’s do that thing.
43:49
Dylan Petkus, MD
And you keep going because if at any time you just stopped, we wouldn’t be here right now, and you wouldn’t be able to think about the next six months of being able to go back to the doctor and being like, well, by no means am I saying, to do this, I stopped that thing by myself. And they’re like, oh, well, you don’t need it anyway. And then they’ll quarrel their British mustaches. And if we just think about the path you’re on now, that’s where it is, as opposed to being in this stalling pattern. So it’s always been so awesome when we talk about you on our side of the team, like, oh, yeah, Wendy, she sent us an email three and a half days in. I do remember the three-and-a-half-day part, which were like, how did she.
44:36
Dylan Petkus, MD
Yeah, she’s already doing better, and she’s going for walks more. And then we learned you have a cat, so we like you even more. It’s just really amazing to see your progress, Wendy. And it’s been such a pleasure to work with you, and it’s fun to keep in contact with you as time goes on and really see you grow and get better and better.
44:58
Wendy
Oh, yeah. Thank you. I just think it’s been such, changed my life so far, and I never quite accepted that. That’s the acceptance therapy. Oh, I tried that, too. Acceptance and commitment therapy and that didn’t work. Maybe a little bit. I don’t know. But, yeah, I didn’t really want to accept it. And that’s why I’m so glad that I found you guys at the right time for me. And, yeah, here I am now.
45:33
Dylan Petkus, MD
Here we are. And that is really where a lot of people really want to be right now. But, of course, they start where you were, where they were thinking about, do I want to try another thing? I’ve already tried everything. Believe me, I’m an expert on this. Well, you weren’t really a haughty toddy about all of being an expert on fatigue. But if you’re someone who you’ve tried things, you’ve been where Wendy is, and just know what it’s like to have years of bad sleep, years of feeling like you can’t exercise, and when you do, you just feel like you’re completely crashed out and really not having that freedom to do what you want to do in life. And one of the first things we have to do is really back to this maze analogy.
46:12
Dylan Petkus, MD
We got to find where the cheese is, so to speak, and we have to find out, really, what the big issues for you are. And that’s what we do on our breakthrough sessions at forward slash talk, where we find out where you’re hitting the wall, where you need to be turning, and what’s really blocking you from getting to that cheese. And I know this analogy is getting pretty cheesy, but we’re going to keep going with it. And that’s really where we want to help you guys. That’s exactly where Wendy started and has been a big part to where she is now. And being able to really connect with Wendy and see the orchids behind her as they bloomed and also as they have fallen off and died. I’m not sure if they have or.
46:50
Wendy
Not, but they’re peace.
46:53
Dylan Petkus, MD
Peace. So I’m not a horticulturist, by any means, don’t bring your plants to the call, but do bring yourself. And do bring a mind ready to take action on certain things, like if we lay out a plan in front of you or really being open to discussing what hasn’t worked in the past and really figuring out where you are so that we can find out where you want to go. So grab your spot, fill out a form, and talk to you soon. And that is it for Wendy and I across the pond. And I’m not sure we made enough UK jokes, but I think people will be fine with that all. We’ll be signing off. So bye, Internet world from Wendy and I, and we’ll see you another time. Bye.